New Toy Today, And More
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CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
My Nyclads likely would as well.
The Rem 125 JHP +P 38 Special load has become the default Coin Of The Realm in 38 Special caliber here in the PRK. For many years, my shop (and many other CA agencies) used the W-W 110 grain JHP +P, which was supposed to be a clone of the much-celebrated "Treasury Load", though it was a pale imitation of that charge. It was more like a Middle East terrorist with an RPG--loud and inaccurate, but when it connected it did some damage. Winchester ammo either discontinued the load, or the State contract stopped buying it after the wholesale switch to autopistols, I have heard both versions of this story from the range rats. In any event, the Rem 125 JHP is now The Shiznitz in 38 Special. Which is nice, since our 357 load uses the same bullet weight--125 grains. Right convenient, if ya reload ammo like I do--to create training fodder--1 bullet services 2 calibers. Commersh j-words can have their place, as heretical as that might sound.
The Rem 125 JHP +P 38 Special load has become the default Coin Of The Realm in 38 Special caliber here in the PRK. For many years, my shop (and many other CA agencies) used the W-W 110 grain JHP +P, which was supposed to be a clone of the much-celebrated "Treasury Load", though it was a pale imitation of that charge. It was more like a Middle East terrorist with an RPG--loud and inaccurate, but when it connected it did some damage. Winchester ammo either discontinued the load, or the State contract stopped buying it after the wholesale switch to autopistols, I have heard both versions of this story from the range rats. In any event, the Rem 125 JHP is now The Shiznitz in 38 Special. Which is nice, since our 357 load uses the same bullet weight--125 grains. Right convenient, if ya reload ammo like I do--to create training fodder--1 bullet services 2 calibers. Commersh j-words can have their place, as heretical as that might sound.
Outpost75
Active Member
Winchester still makes the 110-grain +P+ law enforcement load and sells it under their Ranger brand.
I've chronographed it alongside my old stock of 1980s Q4070 U.S. Treasury load and it is the same thing.
Don't know whether you can get it in Kaliforniastan, but the cop shops in West Virginia all carry it. I have
attached the tech data sheet from the Olin Law Enforcement site.
I've chronographed it alongside my old stock of 1980s Q4070 U.S. Treasury load and it is the same thing.
Don't know whether you can get it in Kaliforniastan, but the cop shops in West Virginia all carry it. I have
attached the tech data sheet from the Olin Law Enforcement site.
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CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
Many thanks for the data sheet, Outpost.
Our shop's old carry load managed about 850-875 FPS from a 2" Model 10 that I used as a back-up/off-duty arm back Before There Was Air, per our daughters. 4" barrels imparted about 1025-1050 FPS. The +P+ is definitely a different animal than our old service loads. I don't recall seeing that load in any retail stores in my home state, but that is no real barometer of scarcity. I did have a source for such ammo in a past life, and it came in very generic white boxes with black lettering.
The stuff may be available in outfitter shops in CA, I have an old partner that haunts such a place and I will be having lunch with him on Tuesday. I will see what he can scare up. That kind of performance from a 2" snubgun is hard to say "NO" to. Dunno if a steady diet of these through a 642 is a good idea, but I can't see a few cylinder-fulls doing lasting damage to the little lightweight.
Outpost75
Active Member
You won't find this ammo in your average gun shop at retail. GunBroker seems to always has boxes offered for highly inflated collector prices of $100-150! P.T. Barnum was right... Here the cop shops which don't sell to general public sell it to LE, those with retired credentials, licensed private investigators and armed security or active duty military. Most of those shops will also to civilians with a valid concealed carry permit. West Virginia is a "Constitutional Carry" state so Bubba doesn't need a permit to carry, but many like myself maintain the permit for out of state travel reciprocity reasons.
A box full spread out over the life of the gun should be OK, but more than that the gun will loosen up. I ran 100 rounds through a Model 60 and the gun developed 0.003" end-shake and the cylinder gap opened to over 0.008", but gun was still functional. Continuing to 200 rounds the gun loosened up to the point of producing misfires and S&W wouldn't repair it, citing "abuse." Expensive lesson!
The Ruger SP101 gobbles the stuff like candy with no issues, as well as my old Speed Six. Your old boxes looked like this, probably.
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Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I had some old 110 gr stuff, I think it was Super-Vel if that sounds rights. Huge fireball from a 2 incher, enormous noise produced. Outside of that it was some pretty poor shooting stuff. I never got into the super light loads. Always had those tales of guys being shot 3-4 times with it while weearing heavy clothing and getting nothing but a superficial wound. Maybe it was legend and no more, but I figured I was going to need all the help I could get.
ETA- Oh yeah! Put "LAW ENFORCEMENT ONLY!!!" on a box and it instantly is worth eleventy-seven times more than the same stuff in a white box.
ETA- Oh yeah! Put "LAW ENFORCEMENT ONLY!!!" on a box and it instantly is worth eleventy-seven times more than the same stuff in a white box.
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Outpost75
Active Member
Here is Fackler wound track for Winchester 110-grain JHP +P in .38 Special from 2-inch barrel.
Not what we could consider "adequate" penetration these days, but it was OK for its intended purposes of interior guard and executive protection where you wanted to minimize collateral damage. 21.5 cm is about 8 inches. These days we prefer 12"-14." With JHP bullets reducing the velocity actually increases penetration, as higher velocities increase the "parachute" effect from rapid expansion. With the Hornady XTP, Speer Gold Dot or Winchester component 110-grain bullets 5 grains of Alliant Bullseye or TiteGroup is the top end of "standard" pressure or the "low" end of +P. Enough to get some expansion from 2" barrels, but with better penetration than "full throttle."
Not what we could consider "adequate" penetration these days, but it was OK for its intended purposes of interior guard and executive protection where you wanted to minimize collateral damage. 21.5 cm is about 8 inches. These days we prefer 12"-14." With JHP bullets reducing the velocity actually increases penetration, as higher velocities increase the "parachute" effect from rapid expansion. With the Hornady XTP, Speer Gold Dot or Winchester component 110-grain bullets 5 grains of Alliant Bullseye or TiteGroup is the top end of "standard" pressure or the "low" end of +P. Enough to get some expansion from 2" barrels, but with better penetration than "full throttle."
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CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
That black & white box is VERY familiar. Again, MANY THANKS for the ammo information, and for the confirmation of damage potential to the ALUMINUM FRAME on this little wheelgun. I think I will stick to conventional +P ammo. 1) It keeps the maker's warrantee in force, and 2) carrying The Coin Of The Realm might keep The Powers That Be pacified.