NOE expanders, what's the secert

[Michael]

Getting really frustrated tonight. I picked up several NOE expanders a couple of years ago and only gave them a go once, had problems and shoved to the back of a shelf. Fast forward to tonight, take out the .308/.312 expander, stick in the die, run the .308 case in, screw the plug down to where contact is made, back the case out, screw the plug in further, run the case back and WTH, that did not feel right. Draw the case out and mouth is rolled in on itself. Fine, try again, same thing. Lubed the neck on a new case, son of a b....h, same thing, try it again, 4 ruined cases. Take out the NOE expander, plug the Lee back in and set it such that it will flare the case mouth to the depth of the gas check. Put the NOE back in, run the case in, dang it. Run one in with a lubed case mouth, $%*@#&. 6 ruined cases. This is the same stinking problem I had early on and shoved the damn thing aside.

Deep breath. Thinking that there might be enough slop between the die and plug that the case is not getting centered on the expander and thus the little flat part on the face of the expander is catching on the case mouth. In comparing the NOE with the Lee, the Lee had a pretty generous tapper. Which by the way I have never crunched a case mouth when using it.

Has anyone else had this happen, what is the fix or work around? I am not a machinist, so not possible on my end to modify the NOE plug(s) to increase the tapper short of paying one to do it for me.

Appreciate the input and letting me vent.

Michael

 

[Missionary]

I would mike the expander.

 

[Bret4207]

I got nuthin', never even seen one. Did it come with any instructions? It might not work like the Lee.

 

[JonB]

First, measure the plug and confirm it's the correct size.
next, if this rolled over mouth isn't concentric, which means things aren't centered, it's more likely the Press than the Lee die with NOE plug. I've noticed on some of my Lee presses, using Lee Shell holders, that the retention spring can hold the shell holder slightly cocked, and hence the shell will be slightly cocked, until there is pressure put on it, so the shell holder is pushed tight to the ram surface. My fix, was to remove retention spring and tape shell holder onto the ram.

 

[Ian]

Thinking that there might be enough slop between the die and plug that the case is not getting centered on the expander and thus the little flat part on the face of the expander is catching on the case mouth. In comparing the NOE with the Lee, the Lee had a pretty generous tapper. Which by the way I have never crunched a case mouth when using it.

Sounds like it. I'd check the alignment between die and shellholder like Jon said. If you're using a Lee turret type press, the head frame can be out of whack with the base and this can cause your issue. Pull the die out and run a case up into the empty threaded die hole in the top of the press and observe how centered the case is in it by looking straight down from the top.

 

[Reloader762]

I've used NOE expanders on several presses for rifle and pistol cartridges for several years with no issues, are you using a spacer of any kind between the thumb screw and the expander to take up the excess slop so you get a more positive feel between the case mouth and expander.?



I also convert my Lee Powder through dies into am expander die using some 3D printed parts and a spare nut to take up the slop. I charge my cases using a different method so I make good use of the die.

 

[popper]

The flare step is very small. The stop is much larger and if you hit it you bell the mouth of the case very much. Measure the movement of the ram from first touch and compare with distance to the first step. If just rolling one side, alignment problem. M die works the same, both are a little tricky to adjust.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm fairly new to NOE expanders but they seem to work just fine.
I don't allow the expander to move inside the die body when expanding handgun brass, all of the adjustment is done with the die body. The expander is just a fixed post inside the die body.

Rifle casings are a different story. I only use NOE expanders for rifle casings when I cannot find an appropriate expander in a die set. Sometimes I must allow the expander to move inside the die body if there isn't enough travel in the ram. Then I measure the casing in the die with the top plug removed and get a starting point. Final fine adjustment is then made with the die body to get the correct amount of depth.

 

[fiver]

try adjusting it down with the case in place.

 

[358156 hp]

Did the case mouth roll in uniformly around the neck? You could also have an issue with residual case mouth crimp from the last loading. If the crimp (if any) didn't iron out on the last firing it could be that residual crimp, coupled with an oversized expander gave you a dose of tolerance stacking, or more correctly "intolerance" stacking.

 

[Michael]

Thank you Jon, Ian, and everyone else. It was the press and how the shell holder and the ram were interfacing, using a Hornady A-max press, there is some funky movement in there as Jon and Ian described that I have not noticed before. Went over to my trusty RC and presto, in out in out with a dab of lube periodically and it all came togther.

 

[Missionary]

Read an article years back about removing those "tough / to tight" sell holders. Let the case center itself.