OK : What is it about "Red Dot"

[JWFilips]

Hi Guys,
Don't have any real work on schedule ...just Have to check in every other day on the studio ( Just to make sure it is still there and hasn't burned down or something!) A wind down until my surgery so I figured I would do some deep research in the rifle shooting I have done in the past 5 years. Spent most of the week reviewing a hundred or so detail very targets that I have shot with some rifles, all bolt action; .223, 243, 30/30 & 8 mm mauser.
As most of you know me by now you will remember I shoot cast bullets only / target only and Low Velocity 98% of the time! I have shot each of the above rifles as low as 700 fps ( most accurately) & seldom venture beyond 1300 fps. I like to work in the "Low Node"!
Powders I use most are Bullseye, Red Dot, American Select, Unique, A 2400 & RX7. If I had to choose the best powders ( I mean most accurate) for that Velocity Range above: I would rank Red Dot #1 (Always turns in the best accuracy); American Select #2 ... Runs a very close second to Red Dot !
Bullseye is at it's place in #3 ...this is surprising but The consistency is not there from time to time!
Unique while surprising some times (like in light .223 loads) is in it's place at #4
I will not rate 2400 or RX7 because they are outstanding above 1500 fps and in the .243 with heavy bullets outstanding and "pret near" equal with 105 gr bullets at 2000 fps!

But Still and all "Red Dot" turns in the most impressive groups at low speeds.
I know I have heard of the universal Mil Surpus load of 13 gr Red Dot! I have tried that in my 8mm GEW but it scares the begeezzus out of me!
Accurate as all heck but way too much pressure for my fragile bones!
Play as you may we have so many powders .....but what is it about this "Red Dot"? It is just dang accurate!
I'm sure all of us have their accuracy powders But after 5 years and 4 Rifle calibers The data can not be ignored!
Jim

 

[KeithB]

BE, Red Dot, and 231 are my standard powders for low to medium velocity loads in medium and large bore pistol calibers. Haven't shot too many cast bullets in bottleneck rifle calibers so can't comment on that but I do believe your findings. Yes, Red Dot is very useful in some applications.

 

[JWFilips]

OK May as well throw in 7 MM mauser and .358 Win also however these have only had 2 years of testing but results are similar

 

[Ian]

If you like Red Dot, you might really like Titegroup.

 

[JWFilips]

Yes but that is throwing a whole new powder into the equation of 5 years testing with said calibers.
I'm not adverse to trying something new ....just wanted grounding on the powders listed.
Yes titegroup is on my list ( especially after getting my glass hoppers!)

 

[waco]

My Rem. 788 .308 loves 10.5gr Redot with the NOE 30 Hunter PB bullet. Sub moa groups at 100 yards. It's under 1300fps IIRC.

 

[fiver]

American select is a between powder.
like between green-dot and unique, a pretty tight window, and actually more like green-dot .25 than .50.
I keep a jug of A.S. on the shelf as a 'just in case I can't get green-dot' or 'I'm broke and need some shells' powder.

having said that.
green-dot is more like a slower version of red-dot than a fast version of unique.
kind of like Herco is to Unique.
it's just enough slower you have to use another grain [under 15grs] or grain and a half to 2grs. more of it [over 15grs.] to equal the pressure and velocity of it's faster cousin.

 

[JWFilips]

Fiver,
I find American Select is a bit faster than Green dot but you can use the load data for Green Dot! So it is closer to Red Dot and My data shows that.
Bullseye is great but very finicky I have shot great low "V" groups with it but most times you can't figure it as a "Go To Powder"
Red Dot is pretty consistent across the board even with different grain bullets & So Is American Select I would imagine Green Dot the same!
Jim

 

[fiver]

I can see how you'd see it that way, I'm sure we use it for different things.
the slight side to side does really put it at green-dot speed.
I'm sure it's made with a slightly different formula [nitroglycerin content] so it reacts slightly different under the same circumstances..

 

[CZ93X62]

I have never tried Red Dot in any rifle applications. I have used truckloads of it for 12 gauge trap/skeet loads over the years, though these days my 1-1/8 oz shotloads are deemed "heavy" and "outdated" by some of the brighter lights of shotgun sports. Well, I am heavy and outdated as well, so let's just "Preserve the unities" and keep shooting. Red Dot gets used in 38 Special quite a bit at my house.

 

[freebullet]

I felt the same way about red dot until tightgroup.

 

[RicinYakima]

Red Dot: high nitroglycerin content, so easy to light and not position sensitive. Flakes are thick enough to meter well and is fluffy. There is lots of reloading data available. There is nothing not to like about it.

 

[RicinYakima]

But I own two life times supply of Red Dot now. Why would I buy another powder that is basically the same?

 

[waco]

 

[M3845708Bama]

I agree with your experience with red dot. Works great with 200 gun at 1100 to 1200 FPS. I be.lieve that some of the accuracy if from the fact that it is not position sensitive which results in a more repeatable pressure. Great plinking and training round. It is just Not a high velocity powder

 

[BHuij]

I always read that the "universal milsurp" load was 16gr of 2400. That's where I started with my low-velocity plinking load for the Mosin. Seems fine, I've been focused on other guns lately so I haven't had time to refine it. If I run out of 2400 before I find a load I love in the Mosin I may try Red Dot instead. Especially since 13gr sounds cheaper than 16gr, and I'm a cheap wad

 

[Ian]

Try 10 grains if Unique in the Mosin too, as an in-between the other two.

 

[fiver]

you heard about the 2400 because 'the load' is 45-K plus PSI.
I wonder how many rounds were fired before Richard LEE's engineer theory of 1422 took over and ruined all those groups.

 

[Pistolero]

I haven't shot much Red Dot, but never have found any particularly good loads with it,
either. Maybe I am doing it wrong.

Bill

 

[Bret4207]

I've had fabulous success in a number of rifle rounds with 13 RD. Everything from 7x57 to 35 Whelen and a great number of others in between. 10 RD has worked well in smaller cases like the 30-30 as a pickup load. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

16 2400 is supposed to be too hot? Ooops! Don't tell my rifles that. While I have a great admiration for Lee and co as regards some of their equipment, I've found their ideas on pressure, lead Bhn and a couple other things in print a bit "sketchy" as my kids say. Real life experience doesn't always seem to support their theories. As far as the 16 2400 psi, so many people these days have pressure reading outfits it would seem someone would have tested the theory.