Old M70 . Why'd they do that ?

[RBHarter]

I guess I won't be buying the book from a reputable source . I might get lucky through the library ........

340 page paperback book is $100 and freight on up to 300 for a hard cover , first edition and heaven help a signed version go on up to $500 ......

 

[Mowgli Terry]

Bullets: I recall reading the articles in AR introducing the 257 Roberts in the 1930's. One part of the articles had to do with reloading. Those folks had to sort through their jacketed bullets finding the most uniform to use in their experiments. This jacketed bullet situation in those days would make a real barrier to fine accuracy.

 

[Bret4207]

Bullets: I recall reading the articles in AR introducing the 257 Roberts in the 1930's. One part of the articles had to do with reloading. Those folks had to sort through their jacketed bullets finding the most uniform to use in their experiments. This jacketed bullet situation in those days would make a real barrier to fine accuracy.

Yupper. In those days you had to pick and chose and hope for the best. And there were variations in bullet diameter, bore/groove standards, etc. Sometimes it was just a plain old wonder they did as well as they did. Take a 22LR barrel, ream it out for a Hornet or something and then try to find a bullet that will work, even a jacketed one!

 

[Charles Graff]

IIRC the Hornet used a .223 bullet and not a .224. That probably changed somewhere along the way

 

[fiver]

yep.
I still have a couple hundred Sierra 45gr 223 diameter 'hornet' bullets.
they leave no doubt about a hit or not on a rock chuck out of the 223 at an easy 2850 fps.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

How about taking the RF blank and make up a .220 Swift custom? An old NRA loading manual spoke of using 22RF blanks as the cause of pressure spikes and short life. Like today, shooters of that time refuted those problems. At that time the Association owned spreading the bad word about the Swift. No problems with rifles made right. You had bull hockey before that advent of the net.

 

[Charles Graff]

Hummm...We had bull hockey before the advent of the net. Maybe so
or maybe not, but we have had a tsunami of bull hockey wash over us via the net.

 

[david s]

Was it a Sako action that Marlin put a Micro Groove barrel on and chambered in 222 Remington then offered to the public? Nice rifles but the barrels don't have a good reputation for longevity. The CZ 527's have (sorry had, past tense) a .223 diameter barrel when 22 Hornet chambered. I've shot them with the 223 Hornady 45 grain Hornet bullets during the earlier component shortages. Mostly just use the .224 version of the same bullet. I think the change to .224 mostly occurred after WWII. There were of course hold outs.

 

[fiver]

Hummm...We had bull hockey before the advent of the net. Maybe so
or maybe not, but we have had a tsunami of bull hockey wash over us via the net.

things were different... LOL
but the BS sure spreads a LOT faster since the WWW got public.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

The BS on the Swift came and went before the advent of gun rags. Factoring in no gun rags speaks of the speed of tom-toms in that bygone era.

 

[BudHyett]

IIRC the Hornet used a .223 bullet and not a .224. That probably changed somewhere along the way

The current SAAMI cartridge drawing shows bullet diameter of .2245 - .0030. The chamber drawing shows .222 groove diameter. That can lead to a lot of confusion. The original Hornet was developed using a Springfield M2 .22 LR before there was SAAMI standardization.

 

[Bret4207]

The BS on the Swift came and went before the advent of gun rags. Factoring in no gun rags speaks of the speed of tom-toms in that bygone era.

Well, gun rags have been around since the 1880's, but I know what you mean.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

I remember when I was a kid about the only publication we had was the AR. It was different then. The ones I had in mind mainly were from the early 60's onward. The old time shooting periodicals that I have read were very good.

Added: The Marlin 1:16 twist for the .222 did not go over very well either.

 

[quicksylver]

There's a book called THE RIFLEMANS RIFLE I believe about the model 70 rifles; I've not read this one. And you might look up AMERICAN RIFLE DESIGN AND PERFORMANCE by L R Wallack from the 1970's. Among the many genius features of the Mauser 98 action is the magazine trigger guard set up. The magazines were machined for each cartridge case. The magazines taper (back to front) is such that it matches the cartridges, and the rounds can't work their way forward under recoil and blunt the bullets nose on the front of the magazine. This took some math. It would also increase the cost if say Winchester wanted to use the Mauser style magazine instead of the pressed sheet metal magazine box that they used. They would have needed how many different trigger guard/magazines for a rifle chambered in 22 Hornet up to 375 H&H/458 WIN and all the offerings in between. If you read the older writers from the 1920 thru say the mid 1960's you will come to find just how treasured a true minute of angle rifle was. If you had a rifle that shot 1-inch groups at 100 yards, it got treated with kid gloves so as to not upset the shooting gods. Now if you take about any run of the mill pre 64 model 70 out today and put together a decent load it should do right around an inch or maybe even better. It wasn't the rifles back then that couldn't do minute of angle it was the bullets not being concentric. Back then there was quite a bit written about rifle barrel twist. Trying to get the perfect twist rate for a certain bullet weight/load. Again, bullets that aren't concentric take longer to settle down and fly without wobble. Not everything in the past was actually better back then bullets among them. Some of the rifles may have been better though.

Winchester model 54'shave the third screw and they shoot lights out. they probably didn't see a good reason to try some thing different, of course outdide of D& T for a scope