Old Truck vs New Truck
- Thread starter Mitty38
- Start date
glassparman
"OK, OK, I'm going as fast as I don't want to go!"
Funny stuff. My son and I are putting a new engine in my father's 1972 F250 4x4. It was the first thing I drove back in '74. I got it when my father passed away in '91 and now I have given it to my oldest son. We prefer the old '72 to our '97 F350.
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Missionary
Well-Known Member
I would certainly choose a points / carb truck any day.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Ehhh,… I might take a carburetor over an EARLY fuel injection system but not a current electronic fuel injection system. Fuel injection has come a LONG way. It now yields better fuel mileage AND far more power. No danger of washing the cylinder walls down with excess gasoline. Far less contamination of the oil. Cleaner and longer lasting spark plugs. No drivability problems during warm-up. No carb floats filling up with gas and sinking in the bowl. No needle valve headaches. No finicky chokes, less vacuum leaks. No gasoline boiling off after a hot shut down.
As for points, they’re great when they are properly set and maintained. In the hands of a mechanically inclined owner/operator – points are fine. In the hands of a driver that only looks at the ignition system when it fails, points leave a lot to be desired.
Crank trigger ignition and coil packs are actually MORE reliable than points and a distributor. Electronic switching doesn’t wear like mechanical points. Under high RPM’s you can “float” the points; that can’t happen with magnetic or optical triggers. The failure of a single coil pack out of 4, or 6, or 8 will not leave you dead in the water.
I am very familiar with carburetors and point type ignition systems. I can repair them if needed. I still have my timing light, vacuum gages, ignition wrenches, feeler gauges and I might even still have a dwell meter. Despite having those skills – I will still take the new unrepairable black box over the old systems.
glassparman
"OK, OK, I'm going as fast as I don't want to go!"
Not too bad. Been in the desert most of its life. The majority of what you see is surface rust and old grease/oil.
Thankfully my father only made a few short trips to Pismo Beach back in the late 70's so not a lot of exposure to salt air.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
The scary part is that, if you take away the southern accent and add 75 lbs to both characters in the video, they match up real good with some local guys I know! I love my trucks, to an extent, but the lengths some people take things is more than bit concerning if they also happen to possess any weapons...like a pocket knife!
Ian
Notorious member
Proof that "Redneck" is truly universal in the world, the same characters live just down the road from me, and the road after that, and so on for miles. Some would have the back-and-forth in Spanish over their Chevys or their rice burners, the hicks about their Diesel Dodges, the weekend-warrior yuppie-billies about their Fords and Jeeps, but it's all the same thing.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Around here you don't want to get into the middle of a second generation Mexican, Indian and third generation Okie. The reservation is full of fights from drunks from every culture.
Tomme boy
Well-Known Member
Modern efi is not making more power than a carb. Seen it way too many times on a dyno and in real life. Carbs always out hp a efi. Now head design and cam profiles go to modern every time.
Where efi has the advantage is programing is easier than tuning a carb. It takes years to figure out carbs. And it changes daily or throughout the day.
I was just watching a vid the other day where they run an engine on a spintron simulator to sort out valve spring harmonics to gain hp and rpm range. Really cool tech.
Where efi has the advantage is programing is easier than tuning a carb. It takes years to figure out carbs. And it changes daily or throughout the day.
I was just watching a vid the other day where they run an engine on a spintron simulator to sort out valve spring harmonics to gain hp and rpm range. Really cool tech.
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
Yep Carbs are a whole different ball game to get tuned right. You have to be able to read the plugs. Know how to use a vaccume bench and vaccume gauges. Understand lean to rich temperature variations. Plug numbers in to formulas. Do real math. Listen to a motor know what properly tuned sounds like. When it's just the right mix there is a certain smell a high performance engine gives off. A certain feel it has. More of an art. A lot of people could get them close enough for street use. But to tune to perfection for a specific purpose. That was an art.
The new stuff the computer does the leg work for you, but there is still a bit of knowledge required. Just not art to it as I see.
Of course take it as a heavily prejudice opinion. If you will from someone who used to make bank setting up carbs in the 80's.
The new stuff the computer does the leg work for you, but there is still a bit of knowledge required. Just not art to it as I see.
Of course take it as a heavily prejudice opinion. If you will from someone who used to make bank setting up carbs in the 80's.
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Tomme boy
Well-Known Member
I have never used a vac gauge. Read plugs and a good ear. You can see all kinds of things on the plugs if you know what you are looking for. Timing is a HUGE thing you need to be able to read. And have lots of plugs on hand to keep a new one in a cyl to check each run. I always changed out 1 or 2 depending on what was looking for when I used to drag race. When you were running nitrous things can get out of hand real quick! You tend to run it a little fat to be safe.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
When we're down to valve spring harmonics my patience would be far past exhausted! I guess I truly am old!
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
In the current world of emissions controls, corporate average fuel economy [CAFE] standards and high fuel costs, carburetors are long dead and are not coming back. It is easy to look at carburetors in a nostalgic light and remember all the good things about them. The simplicity, the ability to modify them, the ability to repair and tune them yourself. The good memories of carburetors tend to be based on memories of warm engines running perfectly.
People don’t like EFI because it is a “black box”, a system that they don’t understand and cannot easily modify. And while carburetors can make a lot of power, they don’t do it efficiently in terms of fuel usage and emissions. When automakers were trying to meet fuel and emissions standards with carburetors, and doing it pitifully, it became clear the carburetor technology had reached its zenith. The way forward was EFI. It took a while for the engineers to catch up but they did.
People don’t like EFI because it is a “black box”, a system that they don’t understand and cannot easily modify. And while carburetors can make a lot of power, they don’t do it efficiently in terms of fuel usage and emissions. When automakers were trying to meet fuel and emissions standards with carburetors, and doing it pitifully, it became clear the carburetor technology had reached its zenith. The way forward was EFI. It took a while for the engineers to catch up but they did.
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Mitty38
Well-Known Member
I used to custom build cabs. Modify the Venturi, Changing jets, figuring out what carb for what custom build. Matching CFM perfectly to the motor.
Often for motors I never had on hand. Just had the specs.
Setting one up from scratch. So a vaccume bench was nessesary. If only to test what was done. Before sending it out.
Now use of vaccume gauges make working with multiple carbs a lot easier.
You want the CFM distributed equally between cylinders.
Like on the Chrysler or Ofenhouser 6 packs or the old triumphs.
But tuning a double barrel on a street strip V8, ye look at the plugs, listen to the sound.whif the exhaust. Change to a different accelerator pump or up a jet. To make up for cammage or nitrous.
Often for motors I never had on hand. Just had the specs.
Setting one up from scratch. So a vaccume bench was nessesary. If only to test what was done. Before sending it out.
Now use of vaccume gauges make working with multiple carbs a lot easier.
You want the CFM distributed equally between cylinders.
Like on the Chrysler or Ofenhouser 6 packs or the old triumphs.
But tuning a double barrel on a street strip V8, ye look at the plugs, listen to the sound.whif the exhaust. Change to a different accelerator pump or up a jet. To make up for cammage or nitrous.
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Nothing wrong with a black box (if they used good parts) it's all the sensors and wiring that is a pain. NTSB data states anti-lock brakes haven't saved any lives. O2, map/maf, crank position, cam timing, egr/evap get messed up and it's a pain to find the fault. Add auto shift, oil level, temp, A/C and it gets complicated. Add lighting/comfort and entertainment stuff - wow. Now add autopilot - overload!!
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
Certain things have and will be proven with time. Look at GM HEI for example.
Everyone thought it was a joke when it came out. 10 years later 3 out of 4 street strip cars had been converted over.
The problem with new is it has not been prove. But if nobody runs it who can prove it. So things just keep moving forward. Some for better and some worse.
Everyone thought it was a joke when it came out. 10 years later 3 out of 4 street strip cars had been converted over.
The problem with new is it has not been prove. But if nobody runs it who can prove it. So things just keep moving forward. Some for better and some worse.