Opinion

[Ian]

.38's look wimpy in the cartridge belt.

Sooo.....wear a .45/70 cartridge belt and carry your .38s in a pouch when you go up to the loading table. I know, I know, don't apply logic or problem-solving skills to a sport that's mostly about family and having fun, I'm just incorrigible, that's all.

Real Men shoot black powder, gunfighter-style anyway, right?

 

[Brad]

I don’t think real men win CB style matches. If the rules were changed to require BP Equivalent loads the entire game would change. No more 38s either, unless you consider a 38-40 a 38!
Wonder how much the game would change if everyone was running a 250 gr bullet at 850-900 FPS in their 45 Colt revolvers.

 

[Cherokee]

I ran 233 FN @ 800 fps in my 45 Colt Ruger's and Yellowboy LA, not full BP level but not a wimp either. Most other shooters used 38 Special plink loads. I suspect the good shooters would still have been the winners using BP level loads.

 

[RBHarter]

There would suddenly be a huge demand for 250 gr profile bullets with HB . Schofield/S&W brass and the short Colts would become a real everyday thing in about 6 weeks . Then there would be a whole surge in filler funnels and adaptors for snap and threaded gallon milk/water jugs . Then the OSHA training and studies of long term exposure , exchanges about T7 , Pyro, Goex , Old Ensford and Swiss vs Joe Kids home brew and how he's somehow cheating . God forbid someone coming up with an original copy of the Hercules gun cotton formula ....

I think I was on that C&B snob forum about 15 minutes too long that all just poured out tooooooooooo easy .

 

[Brad]

I ran 233 FN @ 800 fps in my 45 Colt Ruger's and Yellowboy LA, not full BP level but not a wimp either. Most other shooters used 38 Special plink loads. I suspect the good shooters would still have been the winners using BP level loads.

That they would. A good shooter is a good shooter. Equipment will never make up for lack of talent, training, and execution.

 

[Outpost75]

930 FPS from a 1-7/8" barrel......the baby Glock 9mms (3-7/8" barrels) barely manage 900 FPS with my old shop's 147 JHPs (the WWB), and around 950-965 in my P-226. Very surprising velocity, and the expansion speaks for itself...

Keep in mind that the stated barrel length of a semi-auto pistol includes the chamber, whereas the stated barrel length of a revolver does not. So given the additional length of the bore travel and expansion ratio of a short-barrel revolver, by the time you add the 1.6" or so length of the cylinder, you gain more velocity than is lost through the cylinder gap. Velocity in the 940 compares to a 3-1/2" barrel compact 9mm autopistol.

 

[Outpost75]

...I fill [my] P-226 with Speer 124 grain Lawman Gold Dot +P, and they get 1220-1235 FPS from the 4.4" barrel. I wonder what kind of performance such loads would produce from the Model 940, if it is certified for +P or CIP-level 9mm ammo.

I tried some lighter bullet 9mm loads only briefly. Point of impact was much lower and I didn't want to file on the front sight, so I've stuck to 147s and did the chamber mod to permit firing .38 S&W also because I have an S&W Model 32-1 Terrier in that caliber I sometimes carry as a backup. I have avoided +P loads due to hard extraction in the revolver. Chronograph data for some common lighter bullet ammo in the 940:

CCI Blazer 115-grain FMJ 1094 fps, 16 Sd
Fiocchi 125-grain JHP 1064 fps, 7 Sd
Hornady Critical Defense 124-gr. +P JHP 1109 fps, 13 Sd - HARD EXTRACTION!
Winchester generic "white box" 115-grain FMJ 1097 fps, 15 Sd
Winchester generic "white box" 115-grain JHP 919 fps, 19 Sd

 

[CZ93X62]

Very interesting results, sir. I hadn't fully absorbed that idea you posted about the cylinder length adding "run length under pressure" to the ballistic equation. It will be instructive to clock some loads from the new S&W Model 625 x 4" and see how they stack up against the Gold Cup and the P-220 velocities.

 

[oscarflytyer]

There would suddenly be a huge demand for 250 gr profile bullets with HB . Schofield/S&W brass and the short Colts would become a real everyday thing in about 6 weeks . Then there would be a whole surge in filler funnels and adaptors for snap and threaded gallon milk/water jugs . Then the OSHA training and studies of long term exposure , exchanges about T7 , Pyro, Goex , Old Ensford and Swiss vs Joe Kids home brew and how he's somehow cheating . God forbid someone coming up with an original copy of the Hercules gun cotton formula ....

I think I was on that C&B snob forum about 15 minutes too long that all just poured out tooooooooooo easy .

Damn RB! YOU had me hooked 'til I hit OSHA!

 

[RBHarter]

You know they won't let that second hand smoke slide .

 

[Petrol & Powder]

So the question about auto cartridges in wheelguns is really a question about moonclips.

For me, the answer comes down to "what is the gun used for"? As much as I like moonclips for the speed of loading and unloading - A bent moonclip will tie up the action. So for me, No Moonclips on a Primary Self-defense weapon. Or in other words, no Moonclips on guns that might need to be reloaded during combat.
Generally speaking the moonclip in the gun will be fine, it's the spares carried that are susceptible to damage. A speedloader such as a Safariland or HKS will take a tremendous amount of abuse before it will fail to function. It doesn't take much to bend a moonclip and if a bent moonclip makes it into the gun, there's a very high probability it will tie up the gun.

The other issue is how the cartridge headspaces in the chamber. Some revolvers set up for rimless auto cartridges will headspace the cartridge on the case mouth and those guns will reliably fire the cartridge even without moonclips in place (ejecting the spent rounds without a moonclip is another story). Some setups must have the moonclip to headspace the cartridge and they will not reliably fire without the moonclip present.

Now, for recreational shooting and competition - Moonclips are awesome!

 

[Winelover]

BTW, welcome P&P.

 

[Bret4207]

That's the beauty of 45AR brass and knowing how to load from belt loops. We don't care 'bout no steekin' moon clips n schpeed loaders!

 

[KeithB]

I took a 50 cal ammo can and made some particle board pieces to fit inside. Drilled a series of holes in the same circular pattern as a revolver cylinder. As I recall there was room for 72 rounds per tier. Glued in some dowels as spacers that were long enough to keep each tier off the cartridges in the adjacent tiers. I have enough moon clips to fill the whole can. When I go shoot I usually don't bother demooning until I get home.

 

[StrawHat]

Bent moon clips? I am not a gentle shooter. Dump them on the ground and go. I don’t recall bending one since I started using them in the 80s. Except for one I stepped on. For me, a non-issue.

Kevin

 

[Petrol & Powder]

BTW, welcome P&P.

Thank You.

 

[Charles Graff]

I guess I'm particularly dense today because I can't see what makes the 45CS sized to 45ACP dimensions any better than the 45AR. ????? Sounds to me like all your doing is messing up your CS brass. I must be missing something...as usual.

It is not any better, but the CS case can be used in 45 ACP cylinders in SA revolvers that won't allow a thick rimmed Auto Rim case.

 

[Bret4207]

I missed the reference to SA revolvers first read, caught up with it later. My bad!

 

[Charles Graff]

Good grief. Just use .45 ACP brass in a single-action. If for some reason you think you need to roll crimp it, go ahead. I have an RCBS roll crimp die and it will not come close to crimping the case mouth small enough to enter a SAAMI revolver throat. The ONLY reason I can see ti use the cowboy brass in a revolver is to be able to share cartridges with a .45 Colt lever/pump rifle....but in that instance, why not just run .45 Colt brass and the matching cylinder?

We are kinds splitting hairs here, but we do that so well. You can put a decent roll crimp in the crimp groove of a Keith bullet when loaded in CS brass and have it slide easy into a 45 ACP cylinder on my Ruger SA and my U.S.Pat.F.A. single actions. Push the bullet far enough down to taper crimp on the front driving band and it costs space in the boiler room. Such a roll crimp will mess with the head space ledge the cylinder, but the rim will allow it to headspace on the rim rather than the front edge of the case. Does it make a real difference? Quien sabe!

 

[Ian]

Such a roll crimp will mess with the head space ledge the cylinder,

This is not true for the RCBS .45 ACP roll-crimp die that I have; crimp groove or not it will not physically roll the mouth down below about .460" and I have yet to see a .45 ACP revolver throat entrance as large as that.