Peanut oil?

frnkeore

frnkeore

Member
First, I must say that 90% of my shooting is PB bullets, shot at <1600 fps. Second, that I'm a guy that only pan lubes, even with GC's. Soap lubes are not useable to me, because of that. I once made a 450 deg soap lube!

Back in the late 80's, I did my lube experimenting and it's a lot of confusing "hit & miss" work.

I have found that my most successful lubes were ones consisting of only two parts (2 exceptions) and that the most accurate were not the most slippery. I think a bullet needs a little drag on it, kind of like a shock absorber, to dampen the pressure fluctuation of the powder gases.

I also like bee's wax as one of the two ingredients of a lube. I would like to try something using BW and peanut oil but, if it's already been tried and doesn't work, I'd like to save a lot of lead and frusteration.

Knowing that peanut oil is the highest temperiture of the common cooking oils, is why I'd like to work with it and my question is, has anyone used Peanut oil in a bullet lube? If so, can you tell me about your results?

Frank
 
Brad

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Never used any myself. First question I would have is how stable is it over time? Does it either oxidize or go rancid?

My opinion is to give it a shot. Never hurts and it certainly adds to the overall knowledge base.
 
C

carpetman

Active Member
As most of the old timers to these type forums know, we lost a great one in felix (Felix Robbins) within about the last year. I'm sure he could have answered this question. His felix lube is very famous and popular.
 
frnkeore

frnkeore

Member
I've REALLY confused myself now!

The temp that oils "smoke" varys a bit but, common 450+ F oils seem to be peanut, safflower, corn, and canola. Of those Peanut has a opened shelf life (before becoming rancid) of up to 2 years.

While coconut oil has a longer shelf life, it smokes at a much lower temp, 350F and this is what it says about it:

"So, you should know by now that the answer to the main question “can coconut oil go bad?” is affirmative. Coconut oil does go bad, and if it’s stored improperly, or it gets contaminated, it might spoil pretty fast. If it’s stored for a very long time (more than 6 years), you can assume it’s expired and discard it. It’s better to be safe than sorry."

The cantamination worrys me about it, too. If it's mixed with BW, what would that do?

Since BW is expensive and hard to find, I think I'll try using about a 1/4 lb and mixing P oil to thin it to what ever I think will be pliable enough for my pan lubing.

Thank you for all the input and I'd like to hear more.

Frank
 
Brad

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Let me ask this, why does flash post of the oil matter in this case? The beeswax doesn't want near that much heat anyway.
If I was making a soap based lube that needs lots of heat for proper mixing then flash point matters but a simple beeswax/oil mix needs little heat to mix.

What I don't know is if peanut oil has other properties that might make it an attractive option.

I certainly think it deserves a test or two. Maybe start with 10 percent oil and go from there based on feel of the mix and how it shoots.
 
frnkeore

frnkeore

Member
Brad,
Your correct. BW melts at around 150F. What I had in mind is alloying (if possible) the BW with the P oil in hopes of increasing the melting temp a of the BW. I don't want anything over 210F. My idea is to keep the BW pliable (so as to adhere to the grooves) but, not become a liquid in the barrel when the temp rises at higher velocity.

Right now, I use a lube that is 25% BW and 75% Alox. It totally melts at 150F and is one of the two best lubes in Schuetzen. The brand name is Javelina Schuetzen. I lube on the kitchen stove and the odor isn't the best and is another reason I'd like to try something else.

This is all guess work on my part, nothing with any scientific back ground. I read about the P oil about two years ago and liked it's propertys so, this idea occured to me.

Frank
 
Brad

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Would a small amount of lanolin help too? It has good adhesion qualities. I know you want a 2 part lube but a third mght help.

What I am seeing though is a confusion between flash point and melt point. The peanut oil won't raise the melt point of the lube any more than another oil, or at least not a significant amount in my opinion.

To really raise the melt point of beeswax you need to add another solid, something with a melt point above that of beeswax.

Now adding a small amount of Ivory soap to the peanut oil, cooking them til the soap of fully melted then reducing heat and adding beeswax would work. Even 3-5 percent soap can make a huge difference in melt point of the finished lube. Start with 3 percent, see how much heat is needed to melt the stuff and go from there.
 
Brad

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
http://authoritynutrition.com/healthy-cooking-oils/

Here is a good bit of info on rancidity and oxidation. Looks to me like coconut oil is a good choice for long lasting lube. Peanut oil might not be such a good choice based on this.

Granted, if you make small batches and use them in reasonable time frames then this isn't an issue at all.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
I've used it in beeswax-based BP lube. Used to use it in a modified Emmert's, but later switched to Canola oil and was much happier. Tried plain beeswax, peanut cooking oil, and soy wax once for smokeless powder loads in .30-30, found accuracy degraded when the barrel got warm, while my appetite increased. The smell of that combination when shot with IMR powder smells like a fresh batch of pecan pralines.

"...the most accurate were not the most slippery. I think a bullet needs a little drag on it, kind of like a shock absorber, to dampen the pressure fluctuation of the powder gases." You and I couldn't agree more. I'll add that dimensional fluctuations of the barrel, frictional changes with temperature, and erratic fouling dispersion are also things that the proper friction characteristics of a good lube will "dampen".
 
frnkeore

frnkeore

Member
Ian,
Thank you, very much. With yours and the other input, I think I'll just use it for cooking applications. Although, the smell sounds very, very nice, much better that Alox :)

Maybe I'll try Dextron ATF and BW instead. Any body tried just thoughs two in a lube?

Frank
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
I believe that Outpost75 uses nothing more than beeswax/Dexron III as his primary bullet lube, and has for many years. That qualifies as a "ringing endorsement" in my book.
 
smokeywolf

smokeywolf

Well-Known Member
Ian said:
Tried plain beeswax, peanut cooking oil, and soy wax once for smokeless powder loads in .30-30, found accuracy degraded when the barrel got warm, while my appetite increased. The smell of that combination when shot with IMR powder smells like a fresh batch of pecan pralines.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you need to shoot a few of these for an appetizer then switch to your accurate loads for bringing home dinner.

As far as inconsistencies in the bullet's acceleration or travel down the barrel, I've not done any experimentation with regard to pressure fluctuations of powder gases, so can't offer informed opinion, but having had much first hand experience with dimensional variations in a closed or confined path that another material is being pushed or dragged through, I can unequivocally state that dimensional (and surface finish) variations in that pathway or port of as little as a micron can make stunning differences in the consistency and predictability of the behavior of the material or objects being forced through this pathway or port.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
I used to put a tiny bit of clove oil in Felix lube for the novelty of smell, more to jerk a few chains at the public range than anything; that made me hungry, too!
A chronograph can tell you a lot about how your bullet lube is interacting with the other components if you watch closely.
 
smokeywolf

smokeywolf

Well-Known Member
Ian, do you still use Felix lube and if so, are there particular cartridges that yield better results with it?
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
I still keep one of my Lyman 45s filled with it and use in my .35 Remington and one of my .30-30s just because I have certain non-winter (pig) hunting loads perfected for them that still use Felix lube. It's an excellent lube, especially for rifle, and does most of the things I could want a lube to do. For pistol and low-velocity rifle, or temps below 40F, I find that it needs a slight modification (softening with Vaseline) for best performance, so I use my soap lube for those things due to how "dry" and clean it shoots and for the heat/cold tolerance. There are only three reasons I ever looked for something else: I got tired of "summer" and "winter" lube formulas and keeping track of them, and I need a lube that can store in direct Texas summer sunlight for a couple of hours or in a hot trunk for a few days without seeping oil into the powder.
 
3

35 shooter

Well-Known Member
Since coconut has been mentioned here, i found this old recipe from another forum.
The author of this one says it works in 125* heat (i have no idea as i've never tried it) in Arizona.

1 cup coconut butter(hydrogenated)
1 cup beeswax
melted and mixed by volume
Add 1 tblspoon mobil#1 oil
softly firm but does not melt or seperate.

I've never tried this lube, but wrote it down along with some others. I have no clue if it would work for you or not.
 
KHornet

KHornet

Well-Known Member
Years ago I used a mix of about 60%BW & 40% Vasoline with a little graphite. Later on I reduced the Vasoline to about 30% and added 10%Crisco. That was probably 40-50 years ago. Came out of a gun mag if I remember correctly along with some other formulas at that time. It worked ok, but was messy, and once in awhile I could get under 3 Mo with an O6, and rarely under 2 MO, with 311284, the only 30 cal mold I owned at the time.
 
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