Plain Base " 101 ".

Maven

Maven

Well-Known Member
Maxjon said:
I might have to get a PB mold for my 6.5 Swede, as the 8 twist is too fast for anything beyond 1200 fps.
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I ordered a clone of the gas checked flat point "Loverin", but plain based from NOE for my "as issued" M 96 Swede several years ago. However, even with lighter loads, it wasn't as accurate @ 50 yd. as the GC'd version at the same distance, but with slightly heavier loads.

I should add that I was using 9 - 10gr. of Unique (or the equivalent) for the GC'd loads.
 
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Maxjon

Member
Maven said:
I ordered a clone of the gas checked flat point "Loverin", but plain based from NOE for my "as issued" M 96 Swede several years ago. However, even with lighter loads, it wasn't as accurate @ 50 yd. as the GC'd version at the same distance, but with slightly heavier loads.

I should add that I was using 9 - 10gr. of Unique (or the equivalent) for the GC'd loads.
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A friend has a GC
Maven said:
I ordered a clone of the gas checked flat point "Loverin", but plain based from NOE for my "as issued" M 96 Swede several years ago. However, even with lighter loads, it wasn't as accurate @ 50 yd. as the GC'd version at the same distance, but with slightly heavier loads.

I should add that I was using 9 - 10gr. of Unique (or the equivalent) for the GC'd loads.
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A mate has this Australian made CBE GC .268 mold and easily shoots under 1 inch groups at 50m unchecked, with I think 8gns of AR2205 or 4227 in US terms. I was thinking of getting the PB version, which is a little shorter at 1.044" https://www.castbulletengineering.com.au/products/rifle-moulds/264-6-5mm-cal/product/710-268-156gc
 
johnnyjr

johnnyjr

Well-Known Member
I tried a few NOE 74 gr plain base in my 243 yesterday with no luck what so ever at 50 yards. These were lubed with lla..sized at 244. I am going to try some unsized next time..
 
Snakeoil

Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
Johnny, you resurrected a 2 year old ghost thread. But that is never a bad thing.

Several of us are shooting PB over smokeless powder at Wilton out to 500 yds. All are straight wall, BP calibers including .25-20SS, .28-30-120, .32-40 and .38-55. Velocities are in the 1400 to 1500 range. Alloys are soft, normally 25:1 or softer. Guys have tried them in faster twist calibers like .30-06 with no luck. I suspect velocity may have been to high and lead was shearing. In my .32-40, I am getting good accuracy at mid-1500's out to 500 yds. But I am just getting started with this caliber/rifle. But twist is 16, not 10.
 
johnnyjr

johnnyjr

Well-Known Member
I cast up a few plain base 74 gr from a NOE mold. Hope to try some this week. Been debating on powder coating or just lube them.
 
Spindrift

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
PC on PB bullets greatly expands the range of useful and accurate loads. I shoot a lot of such bullets.
But newly coated bullets should be allowed four weeks of maturation (precipitation gardening) before you do any load development. Or else, you'll have to do it all over again, once hardness has stabilized.
 
JonB

JonB

Halcyon member
johnnyjr said:
I tried a few NOE 74 gr plain base in my 243 yesterday with no luck what so ever at 50 yards. These were lubed with lla..sized at 244. I am going to try some unsized next time..
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How fast were you pushing them?
Load?
 
JonB

JonB

Halcyon member
well, I assume you had an idea of the speed?
I rarely had luck trying to push plain base bullets fast.
It'd be best to start around 1400 to 1500 range like snakeoil mentioned...with soft alloy.
 
johnnyjr

johnnyjr

Well-Known Member
Ben said:
It is no secret on this forum that I enjoy shooting plain based , reduced velocity, rifle loads.

Some have tried it with only limited success. I don't pretend to know all the answers on the subject, but I can share what I do know.

  • The base MUST be filled out well with a smooth sprue cut !
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  • The drive bands must be filled out well with you sorting through the bullets ( prior to lubing and sizing ) , making a close physical inspection. Be " ruthless " in your standards of inspection ! ! If you see a drive band that is not filled out well, drop that one into the remelt can. I don't weigh my cast bullets, but if you've got the time and want to go the " extra mile " in consistency then by all means do it.
HsXAS8S.jpg


  • Even if you've done the above perfectly, you can ruin everything with excessive speed. I've found great accuracy in the 1050 fps - 1200 fps speed zone. Trying to push a plain base bullet to 1,500 , 1,600 , 1,700 fps and beyond, treating it like a g/c bullet, is a quick prescription for a " NO Joy " trip to the range.
When you find a plain base mould and find the diameter that your particular rifle likes, with the proper amount ( don't over - lube ) of bullet lube you'll be well on your way to success.

These will make for some fun afternoons at the range this fall.

Is7gyEL.jpg


In .30 cal. rifle, you could do MUCH WORSE in your selection of a nice plain base bullet style than this one. The SAECO # 315 is an all time perennial favorite of mine. Here is the Accurate version made by Tom , 31- 175 BP , both cavities being plain base.

uL7W2gU.jpg


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Developing some super accurate loads, saving powder, not paying for gas checks, and going easy on your ears, your rifle and your shoulder all make good sense to me.

10 rounds @ 50 yards shot with my 30-30 Handi rifle .
( The aiming square in the next photo is 1.25 " X 1.25" )

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Here is the load .

CvqvQI6.jpg



Good Shooting to all of you,

Ben
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Nice looking mold..
 
Snakeoil

Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
I've since gone to a bullet from a custom mold to suit the dimension of my original .32-40 and found a load it liked with an MV in the 1360 fps range. It works and works well.
 
Ben

Ben

Moderator
Staff member
If these things are correct in plain base shooting :

  1. Correct bullet diameter
  2. Correct bullet weight and shape
  3. Correct OAL
  4. Correct bullet lube & correct quantity of lube
  5. Correct Velocity ( not to exceed 1,500 fps)
You should see some success fairly quickly.
 
Snakeoil

Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
I think twist plays a role as well and have mentioned this before. Fast twists like 10 seem to be too much for PB bullets to handle. My guess is the resistance creates enough pressure to cause gas cutting of the base. I also think that the softer lead used in PB cannot hold up to the faster twists and shears rather than engraves.
 
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blackthorn

Active Member
Snakeoil said:
I think twist plays a role as well and have mentioned this before. Fast twists like 10 seem to be too much for PB bullets to handle. My guess is the resistance creates enough pressure to cause gas cutting of the base. I also think that the softer lead used in PB can hold up to the faster twists and shears rather than engraves.
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Can or can't???
 
Bret4207

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
But you can make rock hard "HARDCAST" bullets in PB and they still don't hold up if you push them too hard. I think it's less Bhn and more pressure on a still relatively soft metal.
 
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