Mitty38
Well-Known Member
Amen Brother.
Powder chose for 380 defensive loads.
- Thread starter Mitty38
- Start date
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
Much deliberation and opinions on the 380 as a defensive Caliber. Many respectable experts recommend ball ammo because the 380 is known to under penetrate especially with a hollow point. There's some pretty good names making hollow point bullets and there's tons of reports and YouTube videos showing what the bullets can do. What history of exactly what bullets have done in bodies as we are all look. We've been talking about it recently and a few threads here and it's these new fluid technology boolits. Their biggest claim to fame is they are barrier blind meaning they'll never get plugged with clothing or drywall or anything they have to go through on their way to target. Lehigh defense is leading the way in these bullets there are a few others but my money would be with Lehigh if I had to carry a 380 defense. You can also buy just a projectiles to load your own.
CW
CW
358156 hp
At large, whereabouts unknown.
I can't find a pic of it, but LBT offers a really neat 95 gr LFN mould that's purported to be an excellent performer in .380. The moulds are a bit expensive, but are a lifetime investment. CW is correct, energy spent in expansion detracts from penetration. It's most evident in small calibers like this.
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
I agree entirely with the comments on the goal not being a beautiful mushroomed bullet but stopping the fight.
Reminds me of an article I read decades ago. A tech guy at one of the bullet manufacturers was commenting on the large number of photos they receive from hunters upset with how the bullet failed. Many are bullets that had a core separation, lost much weight, failed to open as “expected” and such.
His standard response was “ at what point in the taking of your trophy did our bullet fail”. The point being that the game was recovered so the bullet did what it was designed to do, take game.
Reminds me of an article I read decades ago. A tech guy at one of the bullet manufacturers was commenting on the large number of photos they receive from hunters upset with how the bullet failed. Many are bullets that had a core separation, lost much weight, failed to open as “expected” and such.
His standard response was “ at what point in the taking of your trophy did our bullet fail”. The point being that the game was recovered so the bullet did what it was designed to do, take game.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
This is one of those things that comes up in every discussion regarding SD- how much gun is enough? 99.9% of us are never, ever going to have to even show a gun in SD and 99.9% of those will never have to shoot. And just how many methed up mutant zombie bikers are there, and how many of them are likely to be that one in a zillion guy that still chases you down with a rusty axe and hacks you to death after you put 2 380 rounds center mass and 1 to the head? There comes a point where the arguments are nothing but an opinion based academic exercise.
Uwe what you feel comfortable with. I've yet to meet anyone willing to stand down range and play catch with anything with more power than a paintball gun.
Uwe what you feel comfortable with. I've yet to meet anyone willing to stand down range and play catch with anything with more power than a paintball gun.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Bret4207, I agree that these are largely academic exercises but they are not completely pointless academic exercises.
The occurrence of the emergencies we speak of are extraordinarily rare. However, if the emergency occurs, there is no longer time to plan.
SO - we take advantage of that time that exists prior to the emergency and plan the best we can, when we can.
It is highly unlikely that you will be in a car accident but you may attach a seatbelt before the car moves. There will not be time to put the seatbelt on once the accident starts to occur.
It is highly unlikely that a commercial airliner will depressurize at high altitude but we equip those planes with emergency oxygen masks and provide a briefing before every flight.
It is highly unlikely that there will be a large fire in a school but we hold fire drills, have fire hoses, install fire extinguishers, label fire exits, etc.
Handguns are poor tools to stop a human attacker but we can't carry a rifle or shotgun all day, every day. So we compromise and select a handgun that can be carried and concealed. After that, we use that time before the potential emergency to plan. We use that time to stack the odds as much as possible in our favor: We avoid danger. We maintain situational awareness, We train with that tool.
We Attempt To Select Effective Ammunition.
The only time we have to select ammunition exist BEFORE the emergency arrives. Once the emergency exists (and I agree that it is highly unlikely it will ever exist) there will be no time to select ammunition.
The occurrence of the emergencies we speak of are extraordinarily rare. However, if the emergency occurs, there is no longer time to plan.
SO - we take advantage of that time that exists prior to the emergency and plan the best we can, when we can.
It is highly unlikely that you will be in a car accident but you may attach a seatbelt before the car moves. There will not be time to put the seatbelt on once the accident starts to occur.
It is highly unlikely that a commercial airliner will depressurize at high altitude but we equip those planes with emergency oxygen masks and provide a briefing before every flight.
It is highly unlikely that there will be a large fire in a school but we hold fire drills, have fire hoses, install fire extinguishers, label fire exits, etc.
Handguns are poor tools to stop a human attacker but we can't carry a rifle or shotgun all day, every day. So we compromise and select a handgun that can be carried and concealed. After that, we use that time before the potential emergency to plan. We use that time to stack the odds as much as possible in our favor: We avoid danger. We maintain situational awareness, We train with that tool.
We Attempt To Select Effective Ammunition.
The only time we have to select ammunition exist BEFORE the emergency arrives. Once the emergency exists (and I agree that it is highly unlikely it will ever exist) there will be no time to select ammunition.
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Joshua
Taco Aficionado/Salish Sea Pirate/Part-Time Dragon
He did. He used a Beretta 25 acp in the first five books. Then he moved up to the Walther PPK in 32 acp. Then eventually after a few other handguns it seems that he has ended up with the PPK/S in .380.
I don’t have a .380, but I do own an old Italian police surplus Beretta 81 in 32 acp. It is a great gun. With european FMJ ammo it penetrates well enough to do it’s job. It’s job is to create a break in contact.
Josh
I don’t have a .380, but I do own an old Italian police surplus Beretta 81 in 32 acp. It is a great gun. With european FMJ ammo it penetrates well enough to do it’s job. It’s job is to create a break in contact.
Josh
RBHarter
West Central AR
I saw this video where a guy had his buddy step back 10' with a paintball gun and frozen paint balls ....... Just like that a .690 hole right through his forearm .
I don't even want to catch paint balls thanks .
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Except when Bond drove his supercharged pre-war Bentley to actually kill the bad guy he use his "Colt's .45 revolver" in one book. Fleming knew the proper tool for the job.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
The Russians went to a seemingly puny pistol caliber some years back, the 5.45 x 18. Russians do weird things with frequency, but this move had some actual logic to it. The 9mm Makarov is a 380 ACP on steroids, giving about a 20% velocity uptick to the 380 ACP's usual European performance standard. To paraphrase the late Frank Barnes in his Cartridges of the World, the Makarov pistol (a Walther PP on steroids) runs at the top end of blowback system limitations, and its slide spring tension bears that out. IT IS STALWART. As nice as its ballistics might be, the very blunt RN bullets used in 9Mak ammo had a very bad habit of being contained in the layered clothing worn by recipients in the cold weather of Russian A/Os. A .222" spitzer-form pistol bullet sent forth at ~1025 FPS was believed to do a better job of traversing clothing layers than the short squatty-looking 9mm Makarov did. FWIW.
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Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
/\ RIGHT , but yet, we still plan for it.
We use the time we have BEFORE bad things happen to plan for those bad things; even IF the bad things are highly unlikely to occur.
We do that because IF bad things happen, there will no longer be time to plan.