Primer test

[Brad]

I have been getting some larger than desired SD with the Win 92 in 357 mag. Loads is the NOE 360160 WFN over 14 gr of I4227.
Spreads of 60 fps over a 10 shot string are the norm.
Fiver suggested a mag rifle primer but I don't have any.

To see what difference primers make I loaded 20 each with CCI 500, CCI BR4, WSR, Rem 7 1/2, and WSPM. All got loaded with identical loads on the Dillon in a single run.

Will be trying to shoot them tomorrow to see what I get.

 

[Ben]

I am very interested in your results.

Ben

 

[uncle jimbo]

I am very interested in your results.

Ben

As am I.

 

[fiver]

I think you'll see a pretty clear difference in at least one of the primers.
wish you lived closer,, I would supplement some federal match magnum sp and some CCI sr Mag primers to the test.
one other thing could make a difference in the ignition area too but let's wait until this test is over.

 

[Brad]

Any suggestions on a Unique load for this bullet?

 

[uncle jimbo]

LFP 158gr Unique CCI SP
6.0gr 1,267 fps1.550"
6.5g gave 1,336 fps
7.5g gave 1,496 fps
chronograph 6ft from muzzle
From Winchester lever action 24" barrel.
This comes from Handloads.com.

Might give you some idea on the information you seek.

 

[Rick]

I've never used 4227 in the 357 but primer testing did give surprising variations in load testing I did with H-110. CCI 550 reined supreme, wasn't even close for groups or chrono numbers. Will be interesting to see the results with 4227 particularly with the WSPM. I wouldn't think 4227 a hard to ignite powder but we shall see. Looking forward to your results.

 

[fiver]

Jimbo's numbers are spot on to what I'd recommend.
I'm at 7 with Herco with a 160, it's pretty accurate out to a surprising distance and is close to the clicks on the rear sight elevator.

6 of unique, a small pistol mag. primer, and a swaged half Jacket coming in around 158 grs. is one I shoot a lot of in the Lever gun too.

you'd think I would have more 35 cal guns for all the 35 cal molds and stuff I got for them.

 

[Eutectic]

Try Federal 205M if you have any Brad. It has been more uniform over many powders and cases. Read small or pistol cases here. Rem 7 1/2 is a close second. I'll even use the Fed 205M in some very light .32-20 subsonic Grouse loads! 2 grs. of Titewad 110gr bullet. Chronograph says "Go for it!"

 

[Rick]

Interesting, the Fed 205 is what I switched from to the CCI 550 in 357m revolver. 200 meter groups shrank by half and chrono numbers the same. But that was with H-110, never tried such tests with the faster powders in the 357.

 

[Brad]

Just got home.
Managed to fire 10 of each load over the chronograph. Results are interesting.
Will need to wait for the rain to stop before getting all the stuff in from the truck.
Rem 7 1/2 and CCI BR4 are both going to be a no go in this rifle as I had multiple failures to fire. Some went on send hammer strike, a few got three tries then back in ammo box. All other primers went every time like normal.

I want to get some Fed 205 and CCI 550 to try. Looked locally and both were ere a no go.

 

[Rick]

I looked up some info in Handloader magazine, here is one quote from September 2011 by Dave Scovill in primer tests in 357m, 41m, 44m.

From my experiments 30 years ago and recently, the CCI 350 Magnum primer has no value over its non-magnum counterpart, with the exception of IMR-4227 or H-4227.

Interesting at least to me that 4227 was included there. He goes on to say -

(The CCI magnum primers were developed in the late 1950s in response to the availability of Winchester Ball powders, 230P and 295, later changed to 231 and 296, respectively.)

I think Brad has that magazine and may want to look it up.

 

[Brad]

Will have to look that up. I never considered 4227 hard to ignite but it may be?

 

[Rick]

Seems odd that the 7 1/2 and the BR4 didn't fire? Based on Scovill's article and suggestion for magnum primers with 4227 and my own load improvement with the CCI 550 with H-110 that may be the thing to try.

I wouldn't have thought of 4227 as hard to ignite either but . . . I have some old (very old) load data tests with 4227 in small capacity bottle neck cases, 7 TCU mostly. I'll see if I can find that. Had a computer crash years ago that cost me 20 years of load test data.

 

[Eutectic]

If hard to ignite is judged by cleanliness of bore then 4227 has only 'ignited' well for me in the .22 Hornet, .221 Fire Ball, the .256, and Hi-Velocity .25-20 loads!

But we have chronographs these days........ Not to mention I've seen 'bughole' groups (including 4227) more than once with a bore so full of un-burnt powder it looked worse than the inside of my stove pipe after a long hard winter!!

Pete

 

[Brad]

Ok, here is what I got.
Remington 7 1/2


CCI 500

Win SR

Win SPM

CCI BR4

 

[Brad]

All target fired at 50 yards off a rest. Groups aren't great as the rifle has iron sights, no rear aperature. A rear peep or scope would improve things a bunch but the rifle is not drilled or tapped for either.
These are a Remington 7 1/2 and CCI BR4 that didn't fire after 3 primer strikes each.

Here are fired primers in the order fired. This is the same order as the above targets.

The primer indent on the 3 middle primers is larger than the harder to ignite ones. The ones that failed to fire certainly seem to have a tougher cup. My previous experience with those primers would bear that out.
Notice that the WSPM has the most flattening and also gave the highest velocity. More pressure?

 

[Ian]

There ya go.

 

[Rick]

Looking at groups/extreme spread CCI 500 is the winner. CCI BR4 has slightly better ES/SD but worse groups. Would be quite interesting to now compare CCI 500 with CCI 550. Too bad your not a little closer, I've got better than 5,000 of them.

Several years ago I did a lot of testing of CCI bench rest primers and there was only one difference to be found in any cartridge in any gun. A thinner wallet.

 

[Brad]

I have the BR4 from shooting highpower. I used them for 600 yard ammo.

I like the CCI 500 group and data.

Paul has some CCI 450 for me to try. Need to find some Fed SP and SR to try.