quicksylver
Well-Known Member
Ii'd love it if someone would try this and see what THEY get. https://www.artfulbullet.com/index....tol-vs-large-rifle-primers-w-pb-bullets.8026/
Primers LP vs LR
- Thread starter shuz
- Start date
Folks--I contacted Federal Cartridge Corp and received an answer that There are many differences between large rifle and large pistol primers. Different anvils, cups, priming compounds both quantity and type, as well as different heights.
It's no wonder that they can give different results when interchanged.
It's no wonder that they can give different results when interchanged.
Matt
Active Member
The attached target photo shows how well pistol primers can work in rifle loads. As stated earlier I’ve found that pistol powders give the best performance with pistol primers in rifles cases. Sako .308, 3 - 5 shot groups at 100 yards. Lee 312160 as cast with two coats 45-45-10, 10.0 grains Red Dot, and Federal large pistol magnum (No. 155) primers. The second group has a “called” flyer. It was 95 degrees, heavy mirage and shifting 10-12 mph winds and I fired before I intended.
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Matt
Active Member
I’ve finished a 200 round test comparing rifle and pistol primers using 4198 in 6PPC. The load was as follows:
Lapua 220 Russian case converted to 6mm PPC
13.0 Grains IMR 4198
NOE 85 grain FP all weighing 78.8 gr +\- .1 gr
sized .244 lubed with Ben’s Red Hornady gas check
100 rounds loaded with Remington 7 1/2 Bench Rest primers
100 rounds loaded with Federal small pistol magnum “match”
Fired over serval days in 4 , 5 round groups alternating between primer types, with cleaning and cool down between each set of 4 5 shot groups.
Ave. for 20 5 round groups w/rifle primer 1.508”
Ave for 20 5 round groups w/pistol primer 1.902”
The load with the Remington primer is my standard “match” load in this rifle. The test has increased the aggregate of all 5 shot groups fired with this load from 1.1” to 1.29”. I’ve learned that the little fat NOE bullet does not like the wind. The 200 round test was fired in temperatures that varied between 80 and 96 degrees F. Wind varied between 7 and 15 mph from various directions. Mirage would switch from boiling to flowing across the target like water. These are standard conditions at my range and I’m fairly poor at wind doping. All of the groups show some horizontal dispersion from bad winds guesses. The pistol primer loads also showed vertical dispersion. I’ve seen this before when using rifle powders and pistol primers. There was also noticeably more black fouling on the patches when cleaning after the pistol primer loads were fired.
I’m thinking about trying to find a Red Dot/Bullseye/231 type load with pistol primers that will group as well as the Remington BR/4198 load to further test my theory about rifle primers for rifle powder and pistol primers for pistol powders.
I’d still like to get consistent sub MOA groups with cast in competition for 5 and 10 shot groups. I believe the secret is casting better bullets. The rifle is a solid .4” performer with jacketed loads so I assume the rifle itself is not the limiting factor.
Lapua 220 Russian case converted to 6mm PPC
13.0 Grains IMR 4198
NOE 85 grain FP all weighing 78.8 gr +\- .1 gr
sized .244 lubed with Ben’s Red Hornady gas check
100 rounds loaded with Remington 7 1/2 Bench Rest primers
100 rounds loaded with Federal small pistol magnum “match”
Fired over serval days in 4 , 5 round groups alternating between primer types, with cleaning and cool down between each set of 4 5 shot groups.
Ave. for 20 5 round groups w/rifle primer 1.508”
Ave for 20 5 round groups w/pistol primer 1.902”
The load with the Remington primer is my standard “match” load in this rifle. The test has increased the aggregate of all 5 shot groups fired with this load from 1.1” to 1.29”. I’ve learned that the little fat NOE bullet does not like the wind. The 200 round test was fired in temperatures that varied between 80 and 96 degrees F. Wind varied between 7 and 15 mph from various directions. Mirage would switch from boiling to flowing across the target like water. These are standard conditions at my range and I’m fairly poor at wind doping. All of the groups show some horizontal dispersion from bad winds guesses. The pistol primer loads also showed vertical dispersion. I’ve seen this before when using rifle powders and pistol primers. There was also noticeably more black fouling on the patches when cleaning after the pistol primer loads were fired.
I’m thinking about trying to find a Red Dot/Bullseye/231 type load with pistol primers that will group as well as the Remington BR/4198 load to further test my theory about rifle primers for rifle powder and pistol primers for pistol powders.
I’d still like to get consistent sub MOA groups with cast in competition for 5 and 10 shot groups. I believe the secret is casting better bullets. The rifle is a solid .4” performer with jacketed loads so I assume the rifle itself is not the limiting factor.
Ray, PM Larry Gibson. He’s done a load of primer switch tests as he has the equipment. Bet he has run the test before and can tell you what is going on.
Has helped me on various occasions.
I’ve switched in several combinations and never had any problem except in a M94 Winchester Legacy .30/30. Me and Petey traced it to the linkage in the “lawyer safety system”. Gave me missfires due to deeper seating depth.
You’re using a bolt gun so that should not be a problem. My .38-55 Number 1 liked them./beagle
Has helped me on various occasions.
I’ve switched in several combinations and never had any problem except in a M94 Winchester Legacy .30/30. Me and Petey traced it to the linkage in the “lawyer safety system”. Gave me missfires due to deeper seating depth.
You’re using a bolt gun so that should not be a problem. My .38-55 Number 1 liked them./beagle
I am working with a scoped Marlin 336AS with Micro Groove rifling. Loads are lower end, IMR4198, AA5744 and VV N130 with 200 and 170 grain bullets and a Dacron filler. I am using CCI Mag Large Pistol primers with good results. With the proper seating depths, bullet hardness and size groups mostly around 1 3/4" for five shots at 100 yds. and velocity is 1450-1500 fps. I have had some really small groups and some awful but am getting a handle on what it likes.
I found a carton of LPM cheap and they seem to work well as there is no unburned powder and every thing feels consistent. From limited use LR didn't make much difference but I'm not done yet.
I found a carton of LPM cheap and they seem to work well as there is no unburned powder and every thing feels consistent. From limited use LR didn't make much difference but I'm not done yet.
Ian
Notorious member
I'd skip the Dacron in the 30-30, never found it helped anything. 9 grains of Unique, 14 grains of 2400, and so on from the loading manuals all work fine if the charges are worked carefully to find what your rifle likes. Marlins are particularly sensitive to magazine tube and band fitment and forearm band and wood to barrel fit and screw torque.
Marlins are very sensitive to all the junk hanging on the barrel. I have already worked on that stuff. You can help but you can't get rid all the problems. As for the Dacron I find it helps for certain powders and loads. I do understand why some people do not want to use it. Unique doesn't need anything but a good spark, 2400 can be position sensitive in larger cases. Just what I have experienced.
I use a good many LP primers in cast loads. Sometimes they work best sometimes not. It's all fun, trying new things.
I use a good many LP primers in cast loads. Sometimes they work best sometimes not. It's all fun, trying new things.
John Barleycorn
Member
Have you tried bringing the loaded rifle to vertical before bringing it down to aim/fire. This causes the charge to sit consistently at the back of the cartridge. With some powders and a low percentage fill it can make a difference.
fiver
Well-Known Member
it does help a lot.
but even Unique gets position sensitive when you start getting down close to the 8gr. range in a 30-30.
i usually just switch to a faster powder when i get that low.
but,,, i will resort to a filler when it gets me what i want without even double thinking on it.
the funny thing is going and having the 30-30 cut with an ackley chamber will let you get away with a bit lower charge and no filler.
but even Unique gets position sensitive when you start getting down close to the 8gr. range in a 30-30.
i usually just switch to a faster powder when i get that low.
but,,, i will resort to a filler when it gets me what i want without even double thinking on it.
the funny thing is going and having the 30-30 cut with an ackley chamber will let you get away with a bit lower charge and no filler.