Primers starting to emerge

RBHarter

West Central AR
Yeah I could ditch the SRP and keep just L&SP , LR and #41s . There's not really anything I can do about the 209s short of custom brass cases , easy enough in 410 not so much in 20,16,12 and 10 ....... A 50 BMG might swage down to a 16 ga , it's a pretty good fit in a 12 ga with a custom rim ............50 BMG swaged down to 16ga dia with a little head turn just like making 6.5 Japanese from 243 ....... Now to see if anyone in the old stomping grounds has any spent blanks . :)
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Brass shotgun cases are cheap and available lots of places on the internet. They take large pistol primers.
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
The fallacy here is the term “The Manufactures”.

The Manufactures is not a single entity. “They” do not act as one. They are not one company. There is no incentive for individual companies to limit production. This isn’t OPEC in the 1970’s or even some sort of collusion between competitors.

The term “The Manufactures” suggests some type of price fixing. I see no evidence of that. I do see evidence of consumer fear driving prices up. Fear is an extremely powerful motivator.

Until that box of 1000 primers for $60 sits on the shelf for months while its competitor’s boxes continuously sell for less; we will see high prices. The currently inflated market will collapse the second the demand evaporates. Those primers don’t cost anywhere near $60/1000 to produce, package & transport. Some manufacturers will ALWAYS undercut their competitor’s prices as long as there is room to still make a profit.

but we are pretty much only dealing with one entity.
those guys that bought Remington already owns CCI and Federal.
so you got 'THEM' or Winchester.
only in shotshell primers [other than magtech, which I ain't seen in years] do you have other choices, but they are foreign companies [France, Italy, and Spain] and god only knows when their import will be banned like the others have been.

you think someone China, Taiwan, or Turkey wouldn't be interested in selling a few million 3 cent units per year, or 10 million units every 3-4 years?
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
Brass shotgun cases are cheap and available lots of places on the internet. They take large pistol primers.
I think I'd cry if I lost one in a duck blind . Last ones I saw were $1.75 ea then up to $2.50 . I wouldn't mind so much for a box of 10ga 2-9/16 double I would only shoot because I told Dad we would shoot at least once but looking towards 100 ea for 12,16&20 would get pretty spendy .......I'm not sure it would off set the luxury of not stocking 209s .

9.3×74 can be had for about $80/100 in PPU for 410 .
 

JonB

Halcyon member
I am starting to get low on SPP.
The LGS hasn't had any primers at all during this covid season, until a couple weeks ago, They got several bricks each of LPP and MSRP. They are priced at $69. I stop in every Wednesday...and today, they still have the same number of bricks on the shelf, so no one is buying them here. Funny thing is, I'd probably buy one or two of 70 dollar bricks, if they would get SPP in.
 

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
Our local Scheels is at $70.00/1K when they can get them. This is a company that tries hard to hold the line on such stuff. I haven't reloaded for awhile, but I haven't needed to reload either. I usually hammer out lots of ammo during the winter, and I hardly got to shoot at all in 2020, and 2021 isn't turning out much better.
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Im thinking 50/1k is gonna settle to become the new norm.
No of coarse I dont like it and I surely hope I am wrong...

"Luckily" (NOT LUCKLY AT ALL) we have had a string of "problems" as our leaders and I have "stocked up" so Im also able to coast along here hoping to ride it out before having to pay these prices. SP is my usually biggest stock and now its my lowest.
CW
 

Winelover

North Central Arkansas
This time of year, we fish once a week. Would fish more but water temperature is to warm to throw Stripers back.................they won't survive. So we take only what we can consume. Two or three fish.

Shoot and average of twice a week. Usually, when I pull the SD cards out of the trail cameras. One of the cameras is within 20 yards of the sand berm. Always carrying a pocket pistol, so I take a few extra speed loaders and pop off twenty rounds. Most of my serious shooting is done in the Winter & Spring. Weather is cooler, hunting season is pretty much over, the best fishing hasn't started.

Such is the life of this retired person. BTW, I'm flush with primers............saw the writing on the wall. SP is what I use the most, followed by LP. Don't even stock SR.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
but we are pretty much only dealing with one entity.
those guys that bought Remington already owns CCI and Federal.
so you got 'THEM' or Winchester.
only in shotshell primers [other than magtech, which I ain't seen in years] do you have other choices, but they are foreign companies [France, Italy, and Spain] and god only knows when their import will be banned like the others have been.

you think someone China, Taiwan, or Turkey wouldn't be interested in selling a few million 3 cent units per year, or 10 million units every 3-4 years?

Seller & Bellot, Wolf, PMC, just to name a few outside the U.S.A. (and we're not the only destination for their output).

Domestically, the number of owners may have decreased but the number of facilities making primers didn’t.

Currently, there is tremendous incentive for each manufacturer to produce and sell every primer they can make and to do that as quickly as possible. Currently there is NO incentive to reduce production.

Perhaps a company will take the risk to expand their production capability but that is an EXTREMELY risky move. Spending millions of dollars to build a new facility, buy tooling, set up supply chains, hire and train skilled work forces – is not a risk taken on lightly. The last thing you want is enormous debt when the bubble bursts. AND THE BUBBLE WILL BURST. ! They always do.
The smart money is to ride out the wave of high demand and not make huge capital outlays while the bubble is growing.

Right now, consumer fear is setting the price. When that fear subsides, like it did for toilet paper; the market will right itself.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
Fiocchi did expand.
they now have 3 plants in the US.
never seen a metallic primer one from them and only the occasional shotshell primer over the years.

Wolf got locked out during the last worthless administration.
PMC is American, but I think they buy their primers not make them.
S&B were barely available during the best of times, and their reputation isn't what I'd call sterling.

yeah,,, I agree the bubble will burst at some point.
right? we've all seen it before.... BUT [chuckle] this time really is different.
I don't think the panic will slow any time soon, and IMO it's gonna get worse, especially as people turn on the news and see that even the MSM is starting to have to make rumblings.
we all know reloading stuff is the bottom of the barrel and that the other shelves have to be brimming to the bowed out point before anything will be really released by the guy's that actually make the primers.
 

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
How many of the seven-million new gun owners will buy only two boxes of ammunition?
How many of the seven-million new gun owners will take up shooting as a sport or hobby.
How many of the seven-million new gun owners will discover the advantages and benefits of handloading?

As of yesterday, the California DOJ has six-million CCW applicants' fingerprints that need to be processed. Each applicant is required to fire between 30 and 50 rounds of factory* ammunition from each handgun -- up to three -- as part of their application process.

Unless the manufacturers conclude that increasing production is worth the added cost, the current pricing and availability situation may not improve till long after the next president is sworn in. That's if the current one doesn't get us into another war.

I think it was Ol' Barry who stopped the importation of Wolf and Tula primers, however they are still allowed to import ammunition. Weird . . .

*Shhh . . . I cheated and shot my handloads.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I think that around $35-$37 is the new real world normal.
street prices of course vary, and is more likely to be whatever the suck,, err the market is willing to bear.

I had it pointed out to me that a lot of the guys on the infamous G/B are also storefronts selling some of their stock in building and the rest for as much as they can get.
it was speculated to me the cut was something like 20-80, but not in which direction.

many places are at the 50 to 75 dollar range when they do manage to have a brick or two on the shelf, they are selling so [shrug] who knows when or if we will ever see a new normal as long as they keep selling at those prices.
 

Bisley

Active Member
If past experience is any indicator, we will see things level out by the next election. I think the market is saturated for the time being. I also stoked up on SPP about ten years ago (Tula), but I will wait until more American, or US-manufactured brands become available. I am fine for now, given that I am in mission work here in Africa and won't be shooting for a couple of years at least. Judging by the online sellers (Midway, Grafs, etc.) $35 a pound for propellant and $35 brick for primers is where we're headed. We'd like to see $17/lb. and $15/brick, but that was thirty years ago. Dad bought me 100 pounds of pure lead -- in Anchorage, no less -- for 42 cents a pound in 1985. Zip metals wants four times that price, wholesale, plus delivery, for a minimum one-ton purchase delivered to a business address with your own forklift. Remember, your rose-colored glasses do not show the griping about high prices then, either.
We've also got an entire cadre of new shooters. Some will practice regularly, some will load the revolver for the nightstand drawer and leave it undisturbed for years on end, and some will load their own ammunition. But I think the influx of new blood into our sport and hobby, with a larger market, is a net benefit.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Average price barrel of oil, Adjusted for inflation:

December 1973 - $25.47
May 1980 - $121.81
March 1986 - $26.14
September 1990- $81.27
November 1998-$18.68
June 2008 -$174.77
April 2020-$20.06

There are different political and economic forces at play when talking about oil instead of primers BUT the point is the market changes.
At each of those peaks in prices, people would proclaim that we will never see oil below $80/barrel or $100, etc.
Not only were those people wrong, but they were consistently wrong.

When you are in the middle of a panic, it is nearly impossible to see outside of the panic.

I don’t know where the price of primers will bottom out at, but I do know it will drop below its current level.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
There are currently several panics underway at the same time. You can't get swept up in those sorts of madnesses, it isn't good for your health or well-being. The best way to avoid panics is to shut off the TV and quit reading the newspapers.
 

Elric

Well-Known Member
Mixed results today. Some 1K bricks about $59, BUT there are others hanging @ $150... Some are MUCH more.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Mixed results today. Some 1K bricks about $59, BUT there are others hanging @ $150... Some are MUCH more.
At $150/K, they better have plenty of salt, pepper, and ketchup on hand--because they will be eating them unless they get real on pricing. I say this with plenty of components in stock, because I stocked up HEAVILY when the fat times landed.