Range Report

fiver

Well-Known Member
I learned the jam a bullet lesson the hard way with 7283 in the savage 0-6 with a 314299.
that 304 nose would engrave and hard, but the ww and soft alloy would take it no problem.
it spiked hard core and run the velocity up into the whatthehell recoil zone.
all kinds of lessons were learned in those few shots.
leading meant nothing.
start pressure and engraving pressure can be used to manipulate the powder.
if a bullet is going to change shape it needs to do it in a positive manner.
and alloy matters.
that was jeez 8-10 years ago, it has taken me a long time to start really putting a picture together of what a 'system' really is.
at first I was just picturing a bullet moving forward in my head.. well it ain't just that.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I'm about the same. When I wrote the basement articles I tried to give people a visual of what I was imagining going on inside the gun and the things I do to try to keep bad things from happening to the bullet. Mostly I learned from results what does what, but still have to pretty much imagine the actual process of it happening.

Me now is me really just beginning to learn how to think about the whole deal, and how to approach the problems.

I was doing pretty good with soft, extrudable alloy and various silhouette moulds with tapered noses I knew how to fire-bump to fit straight and tall bands that would squish neatly into the grooves, then you come along with that WD 6/4 alloy and a new bullet that don't have anywhere for metal to go and say try this, now I'm having to back up about 200 steps and think the whole thing through over and over, considering how much of everything I've been doing the design and alloy changes, and how to work with it to get the most of the advantages both can offer.
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
I got a jump on this new stuff with the AR's, it didn't click until I started your direction with the 165, and had to do something else to get results.
then it was like aaaaahh.
not only is there more than one way to skin this cat but there are some patterns that are starting show up.

then I threw an 0-6 design in a 308 and had to fight getting it in there, so it was like okay? wait... lets re-look at this again.
hmm,,,, so how hard do I dare hit this? and whats gonna happen on the fast end of the powder spectrum.
once we see how hard, following it up with a softer and softer launch should show some better results and at an even higher speed.
nuthin to lose here, I have another bullet and load I can always fall back on, the worst that can happen is I can't get back under 2"s.
so lets throw a little sliding test at it and see what happens.
is there a point of too soft?, I'm sure there is but how far behind rl-22 is it?
all I know is H-450 better not be the answer.
 

waco

Springfield, Oregon
Got some numbers to load more with RX15
I pulled a number out of my ass and loaded 20 (xcb) with 41gr Varget
2550fs avg.
5 @ 100 right at 2”
9 @ 200 right at 6”

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fiver

Well-Known Member
thank's Walter.
if we can keep the XCB testing all in one spot it might help us all a bit in comparing notes.
 

waco

Springfield, Oregon
I know what charges of RX15 to use next time I go out.
The Varget load was an off the cuff load. Ho hum accuracy.
I’ll try to tweak it.
 

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
Is the RL15 working well? I seem to remember it liked to be loaded at max loading's to be consistent. If you can't get it to work with RL15,Varget then 4064 is worth a try. Varget was supposed to be the temp stable answer for 4064 according to Hodgon when it first came out.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
they got all hyped about temp stable for a while there.
I'm still using 4064 I can live with a 25fps loss in the cold, it isn't like blue dot or H-110.
 

waco

Springfield, Oregon
I just did a 10 round Satterle load test. I now know what charge I want to try.
 
F

freebullet

Guest
I'm speechless as to fiver posting pics. I like 4064.

Waco, ya might try round 38-40ish on the varget.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
Here's somemore.
 

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fiver

Well-Known Member
more pics from the range today.
the first 2 are the xcb rifle fire forming the cases with W-748.
they shot a lot better than I thought they would, so I moved the scope over half way through.
I really need a recoil pad on this rifle, it's hard to control and will slip down my shoulder cracking me pretty good.
it also throws the shot off about 2"s away.

next is 39 grs of 4064 I'm really liking this powder.
that group was shot by a buddy at the range and he was fairly impressed [I'm pretty sure I'm going to work on the neck tension and the seating length with this powder]

then the 45grs of CFE I used this load to sight the scope in after adding a shim to the front ring.
I think this load has some possibility's.
it was moving along and at 50 yds it was cutting clover leafs I was trying to beat the rain storm I could see coming off the mountain so a few shots got launched.

bottom left is 47grs of AA-2700 now we are getting somewhere.
this one was a serious load.
of course it has to be the one powder I have to mail order and is the one i shoot in the varmint rifles, and a couple of Milsurps with jacketed bullets.

then finally 47grs of rl-19.
this load shot really smooth but took a few rounds to settle in, the 3 at the bottom are from a cold barrel then the next three to the left, then it jumped to the center and laid down a pretty decent 4 shot group.


there are a couple of things I noticed today.
this barrel doesn't settle right down when switching powders, it takes about 4-5 shots then shows you where the group is going to be and throws a couple more around then finally settles down and shoots.
the neck tension on these cases are starting to wander a bit I was starting to feel it when seating some of the bullets and could tell when closing the bolt.
 

35 shooter

Well-Known Member
Good to see some more targets and with the different powders. One thing i've noticed, it's hard to make that rifle shoot more than a 2" group no matter what powder you throw in it.
That says some good things about that rig!

I'm liking your 4064 results so far, but.....once you explained how the rifle is reacting to a different powder shot on top of another(mine doesn't like it much either), i really like the rl 19 results.
Naturally i gave away a half can of it the other day i'd had laying around as in like forever...dang it.
 

Will

Well-Known Member
Looking good fiver.

I figured some of these powders would have been a little to fast to perform well but once again I thought wrong.

Any idea what velocity was with the RL 19?

To me the 748 group looks really good. I always like to see a good circular pattern to groups. The groups with 748 were especially good for brass not fire formed.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
remember these loads are kind of random, [researched and safe but random] some are near 2400 some are near 2650.
it has a 30" barrel and the lube shoots very dry.
there has been no work up except for the 4064 steps from the other day.

quite a bit of the random here and there shots are me, I haven't touched a rifle in almost 2 years other than 6-7 shots at hunting time.
there is still some trigger slap and look past the scope at the target going on.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
the 748 was used in the XCB rifle.
between the 2 groups there is a string 3' wide with the vast majority in a 1" square high, and then the me part throwing a couple high and a couple low.
I was not expecting it to shoot that good.
 

35 shooter

Well-Known Member
Okay, you mentioned the lube shooting a bit dry, and that was my next question, as i noticed the bullet holes looked a bit dry of lube.
What lube were you using?

Whatever it is, it's obviously doing it's job of being consistent.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
it's my moly complex lube.
it gives off a little poof of smoke at the muzzle but leaves nothing on the target and just dry powder fouling on the muzzle.
the inside of the barrel always has a powder haze after a few rounds.

anyway this is the recipe.
I have subbed in lymans moly lube using a full stick in place of the valve lube and it seems to come out just about the same.
one other thing I added was a rounded TSP of wheel bearing grease to a 4oz batch.
the lube after the initial making comes out hard, hard enough you can't penetrate it with a fork.
but once you re-heat it and squeeze it, it goes pliable and smooth.
the more you work it the softer it gets.

Felix: :lol:
i'm using E-purple in my leverguns,and revolvers made with aluminum stearate.
in my rifles it's still my moly complex.
it's about a kitchen sink lube with b-wax60%/soy wax40%,a little candle parrafin 5%,some white lith @30% of the melted waxes,xlox15%,and a titch of lanolin@2%,modified with atf i tsp per 1.5 oz.
all done at b-wax melt temp
to all this i break off about 2 ivory soap bar sized pieces and add a big golf ball sized piece of moly valve lube. [made with glycol esters]
you don't melt it to add the moly or it will fall to the bottom, you just heat it enough to get a blender to go through it,add the moly lube and blend till smooth.
this has been very accurate and has allowed velocity's over 2700 fps.
it need some more first shot testing though.
and the ethlene glycol based j-lube has done well in testing over the summer, it needs some cold weather shooting though.
it is not condusive to modification however.