RCBS 145SIL nose size die

I

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Right(RB & Fiver)....
I bead roll sheet metal,which besides producing pretty durn cool profiles,definitely gets you thinking about process engineering. So changing shapes of lube and drive bands isn't that big of a stretch on the ole noggin. Faster,would be willing to bet,and certainly cheaper than changing a mould.

As for measuring.... got to take a little look back at the OP; "one" aspect of that nose die is it's OD roundness and how that,compared to say a sq chunk of steel,assists itself in use. Translated; you stick a bullet in it say,best you can WRT straightness. The "check" is to roll it.

I have a coincentricity gage that doesn't get pulled out much anymore because the processes have somewhat circumvented it. AND a small flat inclined plane that I roll cases,empty and loaded down. Because of time spent with the fancy gage,have gotten to where it's fairly apparent,at a glance on the flat plate whether or not there's need for further inspection.

The OP die,with a bullet "started" but not sized can be rolled down the plate. You're in serious visual trouble if you can't see whether its started straight or not. The more you use it,the less you need it. I have rolled nekkid bullets and seen issues. Dosen't happen all the time but,gets one to thinking about these things.
 
I

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The measuring of roundness from last post continued;

In the same sort of way that the nose die self aligns,and is easily checked...... the same logic can be applied to measuring roundness of a bullet. There can be some research into the subject,metrology speaking.... and buying a nice B&S blade style mike in my case doesn't need any justification.

But after you have not only the wheels "set" and obviously checked..... part of the tools design would see a calibration of the adjuster wheel.....

Further,being a feel or skillset; you'd be in serious tactile trouble if you couldn't "feel" an out of roundness condition on a tool designed to correct said. Lay a .001's strip of anything on some sheet metal and run it through a bead roller..... and that's being generous. Meaning you can feel a spec of fly poop on it when going through the rollers.

It's not a matter of whether or not this will "show up on paper"..... and take that anyway you want. Meaning,groups or applied patents. The rubber hits the road because it's easier to make a roller system than it is to justify or "prove" it to some folks. IF,along the way some unforseen magic happens cause the drive bands got manipulated....oh well,see you in the funny papers.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
I'm seeing a thread-rolling machine adapted with polished dies that take a cast slug and roll it to final diameter without altering the form much. You get swaged precision, uniformity, collapse any porous spots, and still get your lube and crimp grooves. The only question then is still......will it help?
 
I

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Not really smartarse response is.... will it help what?

As I see it,just like the OP die. It wasn't "just" getting the dang nose sized. The process advanced,or increased my "depth of field" WRT focus.

Another..... milling bullet bases to change the length accomplishes that but,HOLY MOLY did it make a difference on not only base squareness but the finished GC quality to the point of "braggin rights" twds perfection.

So,one could argue rolling concepts worth,on a practical level.... the intangibles can come in spades. But,I got a feeling if someone has a real desire to go kick some competition arse,and/or stretch that varmint field another 100 yds...... it's worth it.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
People been drilling tiny groups out to 200 yards with ordinary but extremely carefully cast bullets for 100 years. If uniforming your bullets makes that much difference, maybe focusing on the casting technique or mould quality would yield some improvement? Point being, swaged cast has been tested and not show to offer much improvement to groups in the BR rifle category. Paper jackets and breech-seating well-cast bullets that fit the rifle properly still represent methods which are the state of the art.

So my question still is...(not being smart assed either), will roll-swaging improve (anything)?
 
RBHarter

RBHarter

West Central AR
I have an old CH that is 2 slick rollers and a drive knerl wheel with hand pressure and an adjustable positive stop.
Simple hand tool built like a truck .
 
I

Intheshop

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Think I've see those RB.

Beats me Ian. I'm drilling some pretty good groups at 2500+fps. Like I said,easier to build it than trying to explain why to some folks.

And have been casting some pretty clean bullets for a looong time.... late 1970's.
 
fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
the new ones are just a little bit more refined.
I have one hanging off the front of my bench.

just throwing this out there but the X-die rcbs put out for case sizing might be a better alternative than roll sizing.
it could be used to modify a bullet or just squeeze the whole thing to compress the alloy into diameter.
if it come together around the entire nose any excess would be moved to the back, where it could be squared off with the mill.
I don't know if I personally would want to invest the time and effort into a silhouette shape except for paper punching at 1-300yds.
but there are a few others that would probably benefit when push come to shove.
 
I

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Got a 12$ set of RCBS '06 dies coming.... gonna try out the FL sizing die neck grinding/lapping. Just been working on finishing up some other stuff first.

The original(OP) RCBS 145 "drops" extremely round. Have been using some pretty nice Starrett and B&S gaging equipment and getting some sweet,low numbers on roundness to the point of seeing the +- of the gages themselves,which is saying alot. What's needed is a roller "system" that is basically the CH above except,that arm is a hand that sweeps a dial. Looks like hardened drill bushings off Ebay are "one" quick way towards the smooth rollers.

Dosen't mean I'm not going to make them,just sayin the drill bushings are feasible. Along with shoulder bolts and a nice thick base. The contour wheel IMO,needs to be a larger diameter. Reminds me in a way of wood shaper tooling. For which I'm geared up for.... from a measuring/gaging standpoint. Bench center.

Cam bearings are another,over the counter means of rollers. Heck, I got a box of'm somewhere around here and will probably just use them. Edit to add, machinedesign.com has some VG tech articles on this sort of engineering for those looking for some lite reading.
 
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I

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"Cam bearings".... found them. Was mowing this a.m. and got to thinking there may be some confusion. In this instance,it's not shell,"cam" bearings for the supercharged,dbl over head cam, 1200HP nitro Hyabusa motor.

It's the below.... if you go to the machinedesign site in the last post,read about "soft" cam bearings. Anyway,hopefully the pic should be self explanatory..... drill hole in base plate. Drop in the bearing,nut on bttm. There's a socket on top to accept an allen wrench. The eccentric or "cam" lobe shaped shoulder moves the bearing C/L as you turn the allen wrench.

Ordered a 5/8" thick cheap pce of A36 for the base plate. Gonna mock it up using some 5/8 plywood. This thing may just work,haha. But can work out the geometry using wood. Put it this way..... what else do you think about whilst mowing or taking leaves?

Screenshot_20191010-104445_Gallery.jpg
 
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I

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Packing up to go varmint chasing.....

Just to get the Mo-Jo flowing,sent 3 rds of the 145SIL-18.8G H4198 down to 100. Yesterday sent 3 in some wind and had one go,"out". The 3 today simply made the hole a little more defined. Put it this way,off a field ready rest,a 3-9X40,with a nice lite hold on the rig..... your "flyers" are called out by 1/2". It's a hammer load. Only reason for even mentioning is a little two fold. First is,"is it worth it"..... And 2,is the rig capable of "telling the difference"? I've got to say,heck yeah on both accounts.
 
I

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Alright,here's the story. A cpl dear friends family started/owns a pretty big conveyor co. One of them was the key "fixit" guy on their shop floor..... no title,just,"go find Mike,he'll fix it". The other brother was the geeky 4.1 grades never cracked a book pedigree'd engineer. We used to drink beer watching all our youngins tearing and ripping around during yard parties cause well,that's about all you can do when you're a young parent.

So,they gave me a box of these 20+ years ago and said I might be able to use them? They weren't that hard to find here.... labeled box with a slew of different styles of bearings in there. Bunch of small sleeve bearings. Used to make short throw shifters for BMW motorcycles that use these.

Anyway sent a text pic and my bud said,yeah they're called cam bearings.... the "adjustable kind". I'll talk to him sometime this weekend and show him the mockup.

But yeah,in my post above.... you drop the offset/eccentric shoulder down in the base plate. Loosen jam nut on bttm,turning the bearings socket cap with allen wrench changes the whole bearing centerline.
 
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