RCBS 145SIL nose size die
- Thread starter Intheshop
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I'll make a cpl more spuds tonight or in the morning.
Might look for a cheapo/freeby 308 FL die. I have been wanting to figure out a process that fits in here(our shop) to enlarge FL die necks. Will start by trying to enlarge the 308 by .002 or .003".... if it gets trashed,can practice converting it to a bushing die for the 7-08.
I know the usual way,least how I've read about,is honing. That's one option but would really like to try my hand at internal grinding.
Another option is a 5/16 (.312) carbide endmill,in a holder using lathe tail stock and just run it in the 7-08? And got some other ideas that might work. Ain't buying a bushing die,not learning anything doing that.
Might look for a cheapo/freeby 308 FL die. I have been wanting to figure out a process that fits in here(our shop) to enlarge FL die necks. Will start by trying to enlarge the 308 by .002 or .003".... if it gets trashed,can practice converting it to a bushing die for the 7-08.
I know the usual way,least how I've read about,is honing. That's one option but would really like to try my hand at internal grinding.
Another option is a 5/16 (.312) carbide endmill,in a holder using lathe tail stock and just run it in the 7-08? And got some other ideas that might work. Ain't buying a bushing die,not learning anything doing that.
Ian
Notorious member
If you buy stuff ready-made you'll still learn a lot, just not about making or modifying reloading dies.
I wouldn't try to bore the neck of the 7mm die out, I doubt it would be possible to get it exactly in the middle. Maybe you're a lot better at indicating things on center from he back inside side than most of us. Boring a .308 die for homemade bushings is a much better idea to DIY, give them some clearance and let them float.
Split rod, coarse emery paper and transmission fluid, go in from the top, power the die body with the lathe, protect bedways with dropcloth, don't over-work the neck/shoulder transition by cycling in/out too much. If you bought a bushing die body you could make your own bushings and save a few bucks.
I wouldn't try to bore the neck of the 7mm die out, I doubt it would be possible to get it exactly in the middle. Maybe you're a lot better at indicating things on center from he back inside side than most of us. Boring a .308 die for homemade bushings is a much better idea to DIY, give them some clearance and let them float.
Split rod, coarse emery paper and transmission fluid, go in from the top, power the die body with the lathe, protect bedways with dropcloth, don't over-work the neck/shoulder transition by cycling in/out too much. If you bought a bushing die body you could make your own bushings and save a few bucks.
Oh,there's plenty of ways to get it straight..... and cheaply/quickly/effectively.
Many fixturing ideas and techniques used in all sorts of endeavors,don't show up on YouTube,or discussion forums.Proprietary stuff,that the public really doesn't have any business knowing.
Got to get some Death Wish coffee brewing.... then levitate into the shop for some quality lathe time this a.m. making a cpl spuds. If you miss the target on size,or finish.... laugh it off and make it a 6mm,haha.
Many fixturing ideas and techniques used in all sorts of endeavors,don't show up on YouTube,or discussion forums.Proprietary stuff,that the public really doesn't have any business knowing.
Got to get some Death Wish coffee brewing.... then levitate into the shop for some quality lathe time this a.m. making a cpl spuds. If you miss the target on size,or finish.... laugh it off and make it a 6mm,haha.
OK,one cup down. Definitely not at levitation levels but headed that way. Me and Co are enjoying the,new to us Glen Zediker "fancy" Handloading book(he didn't put fancy in the title)..... on moto GP race bikes,where the front end "stem" passes through the headstock,instead of pressed in bearings dujour.... they have eccentric "carriers" of sorts that allows minute adj to the rake/trail/wheelbase. Now think O frame reloading press....you know how some have steel,Heli-coil "style" inserts? Got it? Now back to fixturing a sizing die to line bore out the neck. A not so small part of this tooling allows you to "range rod" your press alignment Mr Zediker..... OK,that probably isn't called for,just name dropped that in there for dramatic effect. But in a sense shows that,even things or notions that we hold dear aren't immune to improvement.
A process change cures the excess seating die,lube shaving,time wasting,pi$$y'ness problem. Hand lube after the little C frame op,then the Lyman 4500 custom die (no significant leade in on these),shaves it off. The by product,lubes this die..... something I was having to do. These dies don't have lube holes,they are for sizing just the GC area. Translated; it's an H&I die system with no holes and no real leade area.
Proprietary stuff the public doesn’t have any business knowing?
Lost me at that one. Not interested in listening to “I have secrets but won’t tell you” BS. Been down that road before.
ITS, please understand that many of us in our attempts at shooting HV with cast had people pull the “I know but won’t tell you” stunt. We are weary from it and it was a factor in this board getting started.
Was my remark short and a bit snide? Probably, but there is a reason and I will stand by it.
Was my remark short and a bit snide? Probably, but there is a reason and I will stand by it.
I made a .0025 and a .002 interference spud. Gotta get past this one size fits all mentality,which Ian alluded to with reference twds standard jacketed die,neck sizes. But the same applies when suggesting "X" for interference. @.003 you can get significantly rougher and a harder jam..... if you're happy with your numbers fine,dosen't mean its gonna work in every instance.
I'm about 90% and climbing towards line bore style tooling to open up necks..... and it won't require a lathe to use. There are several good,logical reasons certain info isn't appropriate or smart,throwing out on the interweeb. One glaring reason proves out above(smart a$$ comments that only accomplish pissing folks off), think "climb milling",think contract agreements precluding giving out info,think misinterpretation.... can go on.
The lube problem was solved with a process change..... the "whys" are probably a clearance/timing issue that's brought on by oversize CB's and my concern for using the roll crimp within this die. The AB 223 die has a slightly different profile on this aspect.... one more reason it works better. In some ways I don't care "why" once it went away... yes you could make the case(ha) that it provides info down the rd. but if it slows down development? Which is where my emphasis is. Not getting hung up on pendantic nuances,if it takes focus away from the end goals.
I'm about 90% and climbing towards line bore style tooling to open up necks..... and it won't require a lathe to use. There are several good,logical reasons certain info isn't appropriate or smart,throwing out on the interweeb. One glaring reason proves out above(smart a$$ comments that only accomplish pissing folks off), think "climb milling",think contract agreements precluding giving out info,think misinterpretation.... can go on.
The lube problem was solved with a process change..... the "whys" are probably a clearance/timing issue that's brought on by oversize CB's and my concern for using the roll crimp within this die. The AB 223 die has a slightly different profile on this aspect.... one more reason it works better. In some ways I don't care "why" once it went away... yes you could make the case(ha) that it provides info down the rd. but if it slows down development? Which is where my emphasis is. Not getting hung up on pendantic nuances,if it takes focus away from the end goals.
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A poor assumption..... not busting on Mr Zediker for you fan bouys. Wonderful book.
The assumption is,using current methods,we're not going to do any harm to the alignment of neck to body. Mr Z makes this assumption a lot,in his discussion of coincentricity and available equipment. You "should" be thinking,how to make it MORE accurate. The neck,case head alignment needs to be,or combined with the press's accuracy. So the assumption that the tooling to open up necks,"only" serves that function misses the mark.... the same tooling checks critical aspects and functions of the press. And in some reasons,the latter is..... reason enough.
The assumption is,using current methods,we're not going to do any harm to the alignment of neck to body. Mr Z makes this assumption a lot,in his discussion of coincentricity and available equipment. You "should" be thinking,how to make it MORE accurate. The neck,case head alignment needs to be,or combined with the press's accuracy. So the assumption that the tooling to open up necks,"only" serves that function misses the mark.... the same tooling checks critical aspects and functions of the press. And in some reasons,the latter is..... reason enough.
fiver
Well-Known Member
the why or more the what is the info we always look for.
the problem is gone, but what was the cause of the problem?
taper? bumping the crimp ring? diameter? case mouth?
we look like fools giving advice with guesses at what we have seen or had to fix, then?,, well.
the problem comes up for someone else and now we don't know if what we fixed was the same thing or another problem we didn't see.
the problem is gone, but what was the cause of the problem?
taper? bumping the crimp ring? diameter? case mouth?
we look like fools giving advice with guesses at what we have seen or had to fix, then?,, well.
the problem comes up for someone else and now we don't know if what we fixed was the same thing or another problem we didn't see.
If you're talking in general,then yeah.
If it's in reference to my issue,it was as stated a cpl posts ago..... roll crimp timing,it was coming in too soon combined with,or exaggerated by lack of clearance. All of which went out the window however, with a simple change in the process order.
The "idea" during the blankety blank(frustrated)period was the notion that there could be some pumping loss of lube? And that still may be an issue...... but it isn't if I shave it during the GC sizing. I need to start another thread about it..... and NOT "just" with this possibility. The valley shape of lube grooves responsibility,for lack of better description,in pumping loss. Not just at ignition. This for me is about "where" and was the same type of where ? I had before about work hardening(which I think,and don't castrate me,is the "heading" or major classification that work "softening" would be described under). It needs it's own thread cause there's much more to it than just,yes...no..maybe.
If it's in reference to my issue,it was as stated a cpl posts ago..... roll crimp timing,it was coming in too soon combined with,or exaggerated by lack of clearance. All of which went out the window however, with a simple change in the process order.
The "idea" during the blankety blank(frustrated)period was the notion that there could be some pumping loss of lube? And that still may be an issue...... but it isn't if I shave it during the GC sizing. I need to start another thread about it..... and NOT "just" with this possibility. The valley shape of lube grooves responsibility,for lack of better description,in pumping loss. Not just at ignition. This for me is about "where" and was the same type of where ? I had before about work hardening(which I think,and don't castrate me,is the "heading" or major classification that work "softening" would be described under). It needs it's own thread cause there's much more to it than just,yes...no..maybe.
Probably should let this go but too lazy to start another thread. And apologies to folks that think this is some kind of baiting,I got a secret. It is in fact "A" way..... may not be "your" way..... of engineering development.
So,on a swaged handgun bullet.... I'm assuming those little dimples are for holding lube? Yes/no?
That's only part of my interest....
Next,how do those dimples get on there? Are they "rolled" on say,like knurling on a lathe?
So,on a swaged handgun bullet.... I'm assuming those little dimples are for holding lube? Yes/no?
That's only part of my interest....
Next,how do those dimples get on there? Are they "rolled" on say,like knurling on a lathe?
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Look up "centerless grinding" images. Several different approaches. But the main takeaway should be accuracy vs more conventional turning methods.
Changing lanes,..... moving over into the fast lane in this discussion.
I tore apart a bic lighter the other day because it was written on the interweeb that the flint spring can be used as a replacement,MUCH softer R700 ejector spring. Taint so,meaning...it isn't even close to fitting. So bullocks on whomever thought that sheet up. But,what this pile of bic parts left is two baby sized knurl of sorts. Look at your crack.....err,bic lighter. See those cpl wheels that comprise the thumb wheel?
Now back into the slow lane.....
It wouldn't take much effort to "knurl" the bttm of a bullet's lube groove. Now,that is....in and upon itself worth a try but it's this next part(secret's for some) that really has my curiosity up and goes back to a knurled,swaged handgun bullet. Who's to say...rolling a bullet isn't,or can't make it more round? Like centerless grinding produces more round parts. So,if it's easy peasy japaneasy to knurl a cast bullet for lube retention,the by product,or value added is that it's more perfectly round. I tried to convey this on a popular BR website,way before this thread and was immediately shot(ha) down as..... "well,that's not how we do it" sort of thinking. It was adding a canelure to JB's as "one" way of curing what was the ailment in that particular thread. They couldn't get past,"why" preconceptions on canelures to see that there can be benefits to "rolling". Not disparaging.... goes to prove that certain info and ideas just can't be thrown out to the public however because of longstanding perceptions that say,"this is why".
Changing lanes,..... moving over into the fast lane in this discussion.
I tore apart a bic lighter the other day because it was written on the interweeb that the flint spring can be used as a replacement,MUCH softer R700 ejector spring. Taint so,meaning...it isn't even close to fitting. So bullocks on whomever thought that sheet up. But,what this pile of bic parts left is two baby sized knurl of sorts. Look at your crack.....err,bic lighter. See those cpl wheels that comprise the thumb wheel?
Now back into the slow lane.....
It wouldn't take much effort to "knurl" the bttm of a bullet's lube groove. Now,that is....in and upon itself worth a try but it's this next part(secret's for some) that really has my curiosity up and goes back to a knurled,swaged handgun bullet. Who's to say...rolling a bullet isn't,or can't make it more round? Like centerless grinding produces more round parts. So,if it's easy peasy japaneasy to knurl a cast bullet for lube retention,the by product,or value added is that it's more perfectly round. I tried to convey this on a popular BR website,way before this thread and was immediately shot(ha) down as..... "well,that's not how we do it" sort of thinking. It was adding a canelure to JB's as "one" way of curing what was the ailment in that particular thread. They couldn't get past,"why" preconceptions on canelures to see that there can be benefits to "rolling". Not disparaging.... goes to prove that certain info and ideas just can't be thrown out to the public however because of longstanding perceptions that say,"this is why".
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RBHarter
West Central AR
I have drilled 30 cal mould that I specifically bought a canalure tool for but as of yet haven't used because better solutions came along .
I can't see how other than the start stop points potentially having a lump , like rolling dough , it could be bad for roundness . Progressive pressure on/off and extra ironing turns vs just enough to get what you want/need would likely cure that down past my ability to measure it .
I can't see how other than the start stop points potentially having a lump , like rolling dough , it could be bad for roundness . Progressive pressure on/off and extra ironing turns vs just enough to get what you want/need would likely cure that down past my ability to measure it .
fiver
Well-Known Member
yeah they are rolled into place.
the knurled wheel spins into the surface and pushes against usually two other round surfaces to spin the bullet.
I think more what your thinking of is roll sizing like they use to process some brass cases for reloading.
the cases are rolled case mouth forward in between tighter rollers and pushed out the front a smaller diameter.
the knurled wheel spins into the surface and pushes against usually two other round surfaces to spin the bullet.
I think more what your thinking of is roll sizing like they use to process some brass cases for reloading.
the cases are rolled case mouth forward in between tighter rollers and pushed out the front a smaller diameter.