Recovered PC bullets

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
smiley.gif

Just trying to help Brad. Seems Brad usually comes around but dang sometimes it sure does take awhile. :(
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Oh, I know.
For my 1911 I am not overly concerned as they are bullets I won’t shoot very far or fast.
For 100 yard 44 mag bullets it matters much more.

I still find myself rushing when casting.
 

Ian

Notorious member
You forgot the massive hand cramp at the base of the left thumb. Maybe you don't get those, but they suck.
 

Intheshop

Banned
I'm with Fiver on the nice weld bead.... next part I have reservations about even discussing so will preface saying you didn't hear it from me.... think in the abstract,to whack or not whack(sprue plate abuse?); Recent changes in the ole casting setup,got RUNNOFT out of the best durn setup,ever. Saw a change from a std propane torch head,which was there to coax a little more performance out of recalcitrant moulds....to a Coleman single burner,available at Walmert,camp burner. Here's the possible abuse. Once your mould is up to temp but the bullet's base "needs" some experimental help,flip it sprue plate down over the single burner.Huge difference in the heat transfer between the small semi focused heat of the torch head and the way the single burner's act. Like a tig torch vs OA torch,both using the same rod. Watch what happens to not only the base,but you should see,by continued abuse.....it starts to "run" up into the bullets body.

Sorry for the run on paragraph,haven't had any coffee yet.... pots over there gurgling.
 
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Intheshop

Banned
Since this is the lube section and coffee is a lube of sorts..... more abstractions. Terrible pic to be sure,it's my favorite handmade cup and cream pitcher. Think about these shapes or profiles. When heat is sucked out of the sprue.....the profile changes as it runs into the bullet body. I had one pic that takes it even further because the auto flash kicked in. It "threw" a shadow of my cup on the wall in the background. This is applicable as well,it's back to the alloys ability to utilize the heat.20190804_052357_resized.jpg
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
I found some time back that if it flipped the warming moulds over on the hotplate sprue plate down that I had better "first pour" results . The 8C H&G and the brass MP hollow base have been very adamant about it in fact . I think it was the MP 462-425 HB/PB that actually got me doing it vs just pouring extra back in the pot over the sprue plate .

I pretty much just give them all the last couple of minutes in warm up the flip face down now as part of my habit building . Of course some take more than others ........"heat soak" might be the words we're looking for in this case .
 

Intheshop

Banned
"Apparently" aluminum is a heat sink RB. To the effect that raising sprue plate temps to the "extreme".... which,is abuse on anything more valuable than a 23$ Lee ghetto master....

This extra heat is QUICKLY sucked down into the bullet body. I swear,had several bullets actually crack in half coming off the cavity/block the other day. Which is what I was "trying" to convey with the coffee cup pic. This heat reaction? overwhelms the whole shebang.... but that was on the extreme. Get it right,with an alloy that can handle it and I'll go to the 2$ bet window you can't drive these things fast enough....twists and rpm's be damn'd. Just sayin.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
A little copper goes a long way .
I have trouble with bases but they are consistently and uniformly messed up so I can roll with it .

I've had the opportunity to shoot enough rifles with different twists to be able to say it matters and has a significant impact on speeds available per alloy .
I guess I hobble myself by using only alloys I would hunt with . On they other hand I guess that leaves me ahead of the game when it comes to wanting to hunt with a real performance gun and load only to discover that it doesn't shoot the same way with a different alloy ......

Only that brass tank and the H&G 8× spend a long time face down . Maybe it's my technique . Hot pot , work flow , flakey alloys ...
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
i'm gonna change your words a little bit RB.
I guess I hobble myself by using only alloys and designs I would hunt with .

alloy flow within the bullet design is the breakthrough thought I have been trying to impart, and only a few are accepting.
if you look at the powder more like a solid piston pushing your bullet from the rear and how it [the bullet] would/does react to being funneled into the cylinder ahead of it you'll see the importance of shapes and diameters on the bullet as a whole, and why the speed that ram pushes from the back matters more.
how that works with the different alloys starts to become a lot clearer.
and you can see how design allows that metal flow to disrupt the bullets shape less and less when the two [design and alloy] work together to manage that shove better.
 

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
I get it Lamar. Your posts reminded me how some bullet designs require more "technique" to get proper fillout than others. My special frustration has always been longer bullets with a lot of squareish lube grooves that usually require me to re-evaluate my technique or my choice of bullet designs. Juggling fast pour vs. slow pour, alloy, mould temp, alloy temp, and the nagging conclusion that the faster alloy is poured into a mould, the more likely it is that turbulence in the mould cavity becomes a factor as well. Then everything freezes in place, regardless of the exact conditions inside the mould (how rude). This is where emptying the ladle over the sprue plate and actual sprue seems to help the most. The sprue area of a cast bullet base seems to have the most potential for aeration due to trapped air. And like many casters, I often cast too fast.
 

popper

Well-Known Member
faster alloy is poured into a mould Thought this was a problem couple years ago, well, not exactly. Venting is generally the problem but pouring a sprue 'puddle' before the mould is full is a problem. Kinda plugs the hole and a poor pour results. Had an Accurate 308 mould I just couldn't get the GC base to fill right. Broke the top of the mould, adjusted flow rate, nope - until I got it to pour straight into the hole without puddling. Fill and let the puddle just fill to make a 'button' and see it suck down. Really large puddle adds weight and harms venting. Adds heat to the plate, cooling the sprue faster than the base. You can see the alloy skin over (first color change) around the edges first as it cools. Then the sucking and final color change from cooling. I usually cut the sprue 2 sec after the last color change. Gently dropping the mould on a hard surface right after pour does help filling the base by inertia. Really like my sprue cutting mod. No whacking or hot fingers. Wooden stick to pop the sprue and it falls into the pan, invert mould, open sprue and drop (maybe tap the bolt) onto old towel. Out of ~ 500 poured, a few have a divit that you can see with 5x mag.
 

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
I have a couple of moulds that I need to heat the sprue plate before casting. Dip the end of the plate in the alloy a few seconds, then wipe off any residual lead and go to it. The thicker the plate, the more necessary it is, especially in cold weather.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I too have found that most of the longer bullets prefer a straight in the hole fast fill then a slight slow down when it comes up to the base.

I'd love to have a nickel for every time I have overshot that last part or missed the hole or only poured half a bullet because I twitched.
actually more than a nickel cause I wasted that much lead making a big mess.