Reduced Rifle Loads Using Winchester Powders - WST or WSF

[Dimner]

I have a quarter pound of unique left and little to no hope that I'll find anymore anytime soon. So I was able to get a deal from a club member who used to reload shotgun. I'm hoping that I can use one or both of these for the time being until I can get more Unique in a few years.

2 lbs WSF - Winchester Super Field
4lbs WST - Winchester Super Target

The problem is, I have found no cast bullet data in my usual manuals and Quick Load has no powder profiles for these two powders. So I'm at a loss of where to start. I'm only looking for now to load 30-30 and 30-06 with Powder Coated cast bullets under 1400 fps. I have all kinds of bullet weights I can choose from. Does anyone have experience as to where I should start?

Or, do you know of a manual that I can find the information in?

 

[Ian]

Here's a quote from Outpost75 (whose data can be trusted) regarding WST:

VERY accurate in the .30-'06 with SOFT 150-170 grain PLAINBASED bullet for 100-yard Junior training load in the 03 Springfield, 8.5 grains, GI brass, WLR primer, NO filler. Use 600 yard sight dope for 100 yards. Bullet diameter .311-.312" with Accurate 31-155D or .311-155-2R.

 

[fiver]

wst is in the international clay's, P/B, and green-dot family, on the 'front side' like American select is.
wsf is a touch slower than 800-X and 7625. nearer to Steel.
both all sorts of useful, but data is limited because they were intended for shot shell use.

 

[Dimner]

Just to circle back and provide info for anyone stumbling along on this thread.

In my M1 Garand 30-06, the NOE 311008 Powder Coated and sized to 0.309 seated to the crimp groove:

W.S. Target	6.0	1123.0
W.S. Target	6.5	1193.0
W.S. Target	6.7	1205.5
W.S. Field	6.5	1175.7
W.S. Field	8.0	1366.7
W.S. Field	7.0	1236.8

Of course, no expectation that it would cycle. These are straight pull manual cycle loads.

 

[popper]

Is longshot powder any good for low node rifle like 3030. Orion 40 SW. Found 3 pounds pretty cheap.

 

[Outpost75]

Typical results in .30-'06

 

[Snakeoil]

Alliant 2400 is a great reduced load powder, meters perfectly and is clean and consistent. Natchez Shooter's Supply had some last week and a bunch of us at the club ordered 8 pound jugs. I got mine on Monday. About $360 shipped.

 

[Dimner]

Wow good to see it's coming back. But I can't support Natchez. Vowed never another cent years ago when they lead the way in price gouging.

 

[L Ross]

Alliant 2400 is a great reduced load powder, meters perfectly and is clean and consistent. Natchez Shooter's Supply had some last week and a bunch of us at the club ordered 8 pound jugs. I got mine on Monday. About $360 shipped.

45 bucks a pound!!!????

 

[waco]

45 bucks a pound!!!????

That was my thought. Glad I still have like nine pounds.

 

[Brad]

I am close to 20# on hand. And to think I didn’t like paying $180 for 8#

 

[358156 hp]

I complained like there was no tomorrow when powder reached $10.00/lb. Primers hit that point shortly afterwards IIRC, $10.00/K.

 

[waco]

I guess if you gotta have it, you gotta have it. I'm not judging....

 

[fiver]

and then straight to 12 shortly after.
shot shell primers were like 24$ back then, so it was hard to complain about rifle primers.

Popper the only time i've ever messed with Longshot was in some [some would say stupid] off the book shot shell loads running like 1500 fps.
i'll probably give it a run in my 41 mag. one of these days, but i've got enough other powders so reducing longshot has never even hit my Radar.

 

[popper]

Its ball powder so I don’t think it Ike’s down load. Only stuff I found at academy. Did get some jacketed for a good $.

 

[Dimner]

I've been eyeing Longshot too, but went with this wst/wsf stuff because it seems like it's available everywhere. I have a whole buncha 30wcf loads ready for testing with these powders, when I finish the test, I'll do a writeup.

 

[BBerguson]

I just picked up a jug of BE-86. I’ve been desperate for Unique, when I saw it listed directly below Unique on the powder burn rate chart I bought it. Just shot some 450BM and 44mag with good results. It meters perfectly, much better than Unique, it’s very clean burning, unlike Unique, and it has a flash suppressant, which I couldn’t care less about. Same charge weight is less volume but I didn’t try to calculate how much less, my guess is somewhere around 16.5 %

 

[fiver]

86 will flip flop between unique and herco depending on the application.
i've got a bunch of 44 mag stuff loaded with it [that i'll probably never get around to shooting]

 

[BBerguson]

I’d never heard of it before I saw it on the shelf… In reading about it, many say it’s just PowerPistol with a flash suppressant. I have no idea if that’s true or not. Just happy to find powder the same speed as Unique because it consistently shoots well with my cast bullets in everything I’ve shot it in so far. I’m hoping that’s a burn rate thing and that it will act like Unique in everything.

 

[RBHarter]

I always read dirty Unique . It's not really all that dirty once you break 15kpsi Red Dot is horrible.......at least in the old lots I have been using up . Unique over 18 kpsi isn't even really sooty anymore .

Has anyone looked at some of the Unique data that's published ? I never really gave it much thought , I mean it's shotgun powder with very little 10 ga data and less 20 ga data . I just took it for granted it was a good solid 14-18 kpsi powder that would run 25 kpsi in square cases (mech slang for bore and stroke inside 1/4" of one another) like 9 mm and moderate 357 . I've actually seen data up into 42kpsi . Talk about outta square cartridges , 26 gr in a 264 WM .......that's inside 1-1/8 and 1-1/4 oz 12 ga heavy game loads for a 120 gr bullet squeezed out of hole 1/3 the size and about 1/8 the base area from only 1/4 of the head area .

Outside of IMR 4350 , which I suspect will be no more , I don't enough time in with min max , what can you get away with , where's it fall off the tracks , what does pressure look like , time in , and data research any other powders . This may be talking out my hat but I think the older powders that are still with us are still there because of their net flexibility. Going on 3 decades with Unique, IMR 4350 and a solid working base with H4831 I don't think the new high tech powders have a chance in ........well you know , of that kind of flexibility. Although credit where it's due H332 and 4198 aren't bad for cartridge flex as far as new powders go . H322 does some pretty broad stuff but it happier over 32kpsi than under though it's pretty clean still under 25kpsi . Michael (Ranch Dog) ran some load data for 45 Colts if you want to chase the 44 mag in a short rifle with hurled VWs H322 and 350s will do the job . It also made me buy a 45-70 .

Ramblings of a tired , over caffeinated, guy that should not be on a night shift .