Reloading for 45 Auto Rim in S&W 1917

[Elric]

Looking at a S&W 1917 [or maybe a later Brazilian 1937?] bowling pin gun with a slab side barrel in 45 Auto Rim. What is a dependable shooter in this revolver? I suspect the gun is tight and the bore is .452, no idea right now on the cylinder throats.

I am NOT looking at heavy bullets -OR- screaming velocities. Wadcutters, SWC, RN, RN/FP are all loved. Not hot on Gas Checks, I would go broke feeding my plumbous addiction. Expected targets are gongs up to 50yds [maybe 75 or so...].

Sorta bi-curious on Lee tumble lube, but I am not a fan of Lee molds... If it ain't iron, I'm not partial to it.

I want to use Starline Auto Rim cases ['cuz this is 'Merica!] and a powder that is less likely to double charge... My presses are single stage, I deprime and prime manually. Shells are charged as a group with thrown charges. Expect to use one of my RCBS UPMs, so some powders won't be +/- .1 grains, but whatever...

 

[Wiresguy]

The Accurate 45-200E works well in my 625's over 4.2 gr Bullseye. 733 fps over the Oehler 35 in the 5" barrel 625.

 

[KeithB]

If pins and rapid reloads might be necessary I would go with a 230 gr truncated cone at 700 fps. Lighten up to 200-210gr with a hollowpoint and up the velocity a little and you're still good. No shoulders to hang up when loading, flat point and a velocity that will make it stick to the pins and clear 'em off. I like 200gr SWCs a lot for general use but not for reloads from moon clips or speed loaders. YMMV

 

[Pistolero]

I won a number of pin matches many years ago with a 1911 loaded with a 255 gr FP design. The velocity wasn't
too high, but the heavy flat point round tended to grab the pins better than any of the rounder profiles, and it seemed
that the heavier bullets pushed them straight off better.

My 1937 has pretty large throats, does best with .454-455 diameter, and shoots closer to the sights the hotter you load.
Moderate loads with 230 gr bullets go 6" left and level at 25 yds. Hottest loads put that back to about 1-2" left of POA.

I'd be inclined to find a 250ish WFN type of bullet and push it with a fairly hot (but OK in the books) quantity of Unique.

There is a 2" wide by 3" tall sweet spot where the pins will back straight off the table at high speed with this sort of
a load. I won an AMT Hardballer SS Gold Cup clone in one pin match using this method.

Bill

 

[RBHarter]

I have a 1955 barrel waiting to go on a premangled 1917 similar to what you describe as sought out .
The sister stock 1917 doesn't like the 250 class loads . It does however thrive on 200-230 gr loads in the nominal ball window and shoots them very close to the 50s vintage FC GI 230 ball . I've loaded H&G #130 , 45-200 , 452423 (PC gifted to me from LoveLife) , 452-230 2R , 452-200 RNFP , 452-255, and the NOE and Lyman versions of the 454424 . Mine were all Moonies but I have about 300 pieces of AR set back for me later on .

Special note the butchered example is case mouth HS for 45 S&W/Schofield and when loaded with a +P type load (the 45 S&W is only rated at 14kpsi so hopping it up to 18kpsi is really hot but zero threat to a 45ACP chassis) it shoots the 454424 very well , 3ft high at 50 yd but very well , I don't know why the difference unless it has to do with the throat jump ..... Both examples have nice even .453 throats with .452 grooves .

 

[Pistolero]

This should work well grabbing and pushing pins. RN designs knock the pins over sideways rather
than push them straight back and are not nearly as effective as wide flat nosed type designs.

454-260-RF-AD1 2 Cavity PB (45 Colt), NOE Bullet Moulds

And for pin matches, reloads are unnecessary. If you can't run the table in 6 shots, you are done anyway.

 

[fiver]

I sold enough lyman 452664's [250gr] to bowling pin shooters to pay for 2 master casters and 3 star sizers.
[and 2 new molds]
none of them were interested in the 225gr rnfp, they all wanted that heavier bullet.

I like the 225 rnfp for the 45 colt in the auto rim case, it looks ..right, has the crimp groove, and has the appropriate recoil.
I can also use any standard 45 ACP load data I pretty much care to.

 

[Pistolero]

Yeah, fiver, that looks like a really effective choice. It has been a long time since I was serious about pin shooting,
but if you couldn't clean the table in 2.5 -3.0 sec or under, with five shots you weren't going to win any matches back
in those days. I imagine that the times are faster today, too.

 

[Bret4207]

My Smiff '17 loves Starline 45AR brass, the GB 45BD and Unique, usually 5.5grs IIRC. Not a screamer by any means but has dropped sick cattle and horses like a rock.

If memory serves, BD designed the 45BD to have the max metplat that would reliably feed in a stock 1911. All I know is it works great in my '17. Not sure I've ever shot it out of a 1911!

 

[CZ93X62]

I can't find the OAL (1.190", IIRC), but the 45BD runs very well in my Glock 21, SIG P-220, and Colt S-80 GCNM. 5.0 x Bullseye or 5.5 x WW-231 in ACP brass (W-W).

I am not sure just how much longer I can live without a 45 ACP/AR revolver. That range day last week REALLY got my revolver-shooting juices flowing. Indoor ranges suck canal water, and I got some backwash from a few ne'er-do-well types that didn't like my 6" 586's report (with 125 grain JHPs @ 1500 FPS). Sissy-la-las. This week's entries might include the 30 Carbine Blackhawk and 327 Federal/SP-101 x 4". Those will drive the hood rats out of the place. Whiney millenial mall ninjas. Can't run with the big dogs? Stay on the porch, then. Hearing acuity is over-rated, in any event. As I shuffle toward my dotage, there is less and less I care to listen to anyway.

 

[RicinYakima]

I feel your pain. Almost every shooter under the age of 50 is "How fast can I shoot?" and "Don't I look tactical!" They get really pi**y when I amble down to put up a target at 50 yards and walk back and shoot at a bullseye. They shoot at the seven yard line at a life size zombie target.

 

[462]

Or five-yards.

 

[CZ93X62]

They looked at me funny when I ran the target out to 15 yards, for sure. That I shot revolvers was a curiosity, obviously. That I shot all rounds double-action sealed my fate--THIS GUY IS PREHISTORIC.

And I'm OK with that.

 

[Charles Graff]

4.5/Bulleye under Lyman 452423 has been the standard 45 AR load for many, many years. Matt's Bullets sells a version of this bullet that weights 240 grains. I can tell you from experience that this load, with any decent hit will drive a bowling pin straight back off the table, far better than other lesser calibers and loads. One shot per pin is all it takes and they are not hard to hit at that range. I won most matches with that load. Some folks were faster, but it took them several hits on a couple of pins and that is where I had the advantage. In a revolver, the same load in ACP rounds held in full moon cllips makes for avery fast reload. They do make speed loaders for the Auto Rim case.

 

[Pistolero]

Exactly my experience with 255gr FPt in a Gold Cup. Hit them right and they move smartly rearward off
the table, one shot per pin. That is how you win matches.

 

[Bret4207]

Nothing ruins the "Tacticool" guys day faster than an old fart with a wheel gun shooting bullseyes!

 

[CZ93X62]

Nothing ruins the "Tacticool" guys day faster than an old fart with a wheel gun shooting bullseyes!

Were you one of the guys at your shop to carry a S&W 520 or 581/681? I have always thought those models and the Model 58 were the Ne Plus Ultra service wheelguns EVER.

Yeah, the 5.11 fanboi types are an annoyance. They love to call wheelguns "Cowboy pistols" and other pet comments. That they can barely manage weak-sistered USA-level 9mm FMJ/RN ammo says volumes. Stay on the porch.

 

[Edward R Southgate]

My Brazilian likes a 200 gr LSWC and 5 gr of Red Dot.

 

[CZ93X62]

I did find a part of the puzzle--the Lyman #452423 mould. That might be the toughest element to locate.

 

[RBHarter]

I think NOE does a version of the 423 . I have their 424 , wider lube groove , same drive length and front/top band vs a round groove version of the Lyman .