Rem vs Winchester.

RBHarter

RBHarter

West Central AR
I bet at some point we've all read those Remington sisters are just rimless Winchesters.......
Having examples of 30&32 Rem and 30-30&32 WS handy I took the photo op .

Without dragging off into a long boring diatribe the photo makes it pretty obvious what I mean when I say the Rem looks more like a Weatherby shouldered AI than it's Winchester cousins. It's also worth noting that the Rem needs to be about .030 shorter than the Winchester.
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32 from 30-30, 30 Rem Star Line, 32 WS factory,32 Rem factory,and a rather abused 6.8 SPC .

My goal was I expect to emphasize the significant difference in case taper when I took the picture. The fired derimmed 30-30 looks long but so does the virgin on the other side next to the 6.8 .

I can't figure for the life why the 25,30,&32 didn't make it but the 35 lives on unless it is just a straight up bad timing thing at the beginning of the .473 rim world domination.

It just doesn't make sense with so many super successful 30-30 based cartridges for these to have died .
 
Don't forget the 25/35 WCF and the 25 Remington, another pair in this series. My question is why Winchester did not include a 35 caliber version of the 30/30 family. Today the 35/30 remains a cast bullet wildcat.

The 35 Remington has a larger diameter case than the 25, 30, and 32 Remingtons.
 
PED1945 said:
Don't forget the 25/35 WCF and the 25 Remington, another pair in this series. My question is why Winchester did not include a 35 caliber version of the 30/30 family. Today the 35/30 remains a cast bullet wildcat.

The 35 Remington has a larger diameter case than the 25, 30, and 32 Remingtons.
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I don't have my cartridges of the world handy, but wasn't there a 35 Winchester based off of the 30/40 case?
 
Remington's didn't get off the ground because the 25/30/32 were only made in the pump and self-loader. 25 Remington finally got made in the 30S but not until about 1929.
 
RicinYakima said:
Remington's didn't get off the ground because the 25/30/32 were only made in the pump and self-loader. 25 Remington finally got made in the 30S but not until about 1929.
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That is my understanding as well. Smokeless powder development, military standardization, and a sorting out of the more effective/reliable rifle designs had a great influence on what made it and what didn't as. The .300 Savage was very nearly a US military chambering, while the .303 died off for all of the domestic companies by WWI, maybe due to the .30 caliber bore dominating military chamberings?
 
All I know is, sure glad the 35 Rem made it. Love mine in the Marlin.

Also love the 300 Savage! Same/same - the 222 Remington or Magnum ver (can't remember which) nearly became what is now the 223 Rem/5.56.

Never had a 25 Rem or 25-20 or 25-35, but I'd love to have any of them. Do have the 30-30 and the 32 WS.
 
I need to either buy a 25/35 or I need to find someone that has one. Over the summer I bought out an estate and I’ve got about 1300 of the old jacketed round/flat bullets for it.
 
I think the main reason that the Remington rimless cartridges didn't make it is the guns that chambered them. None of them, except for the 35 Remington, were chambered in other manufacturer's guns. None that I can think of anyways. If it wasn't for Marlin picking up the 35 Remington in the 336, it'd be obsolete too.

While the Model 8 and Model 14 were great guns... they didn't have the huge popularity that leverguns did, and do.
 
I'll shorten my opinion to as few words as possible. Hard for me to do.
Gun writers made big game hunters dissatisfied with their "moldy old" lever and pump guns. God forbid if you had a Remington Model 8 or 81. Didn't Saint Jack make fun of those rifles specifically? Saint Elmer couldn't stuff a .333 OKH in no lever , pump, or automatic.
Even Francis Sell praised the .250-3000 over those obsolescent rifles of yore.
More disposable income after WWII and the desire to have a flat shooting, bolt actioned, optically enhanced rifle tucked away in the closet, in case you ever had a chance to go hunt Out West, or the Yukon, or Alaska, was more appealing than Hugh's Miss October.
I base this opinion on real life observations of my Dad, my Uncles, and their friends. They often had to hunt with shotgun by gov't edict unless the went "Up North" into a rifle zone. No one I knew could afford a trip Out West and Alaska and Canada may as well been an African Safari. But even if you couldn't hunt in Sonora, or the Book Cliffs, or traipse off after Dall sheep, you could have a suitable rifle to fondle as you fantasized about those future trips that never materialized.
You didn't read Outdoor Life, or Sports Afield and then polish your Model 141 with Hoppe's #9.
Now of course we are so goofy we nit pick, split hairs, argue merits and stand in front of a gun safes stuffed to the gills that our Fathers could only have dreamed about. We agonize over which gun we are taking this year, fire one shot and feel vaguely dissatisfied as we put that rifle away and have pangs of regret about its neglected brethren.
I actually envy my BIL who has his Dad's Springfield Sporter as his only deer rifle, a little, I guess.
Pardon my post deer hunt lassitude.
 
L Ross said:
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I actually envy my BIL who has his Dad's Springfield Sporter as his only deer rifle, a little, I guess.
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Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, wore the t-shirt out and made cleaning patches of it.

Over and over and over, I watched the same and fell victim to it myself. Yeah, it was nice to have cool stuff, but I had come to resent it at times. Had my fun playing with a bunch of different things over the years, but never got much chance to use it for what it was supposed to be so fit to do better than a lever or break-action single shot.

I possess four long-guns now and none of them are worthy candidates for polar bear, cape buffalo or elephant. Many would question if they are enough for whitetail deer.

If I had to pare it down to ONE, and I've mulled this over and over and over for years, it would be JMB's 92 in 357 mag. Maybe, if it were really my ONE gun, I'd consider bumping it up to 44 Mag, becau....

Now, there I go again making up "what-if" scenarios which are about as likely as me bumping into a polar bear on my way out to the compost bin in NW Ohio.
 
L Ross said:
I actually envy my BIL who has his Dad's Springfield Sporter as his only deer rifle, a little, I guess.
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I have heard it said : "Beware of the man who shoots one gun and one load."

My uncle too, had one hunting rifle, a "sporterized" 03-A3, original straight grip stock, fore end cut off to sporter length, sights removed, original finish and trigger, topped off with a post and cross hair K-4 Weaver. One load 165gr Hornady SP Mexican Match or reloaded with 4831 to the same specs. Never seen him miss or make a bad shot. In his later years he bought a used 788 in 22-250 for sod poodles.
 
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Michael said:
I have heard it said : "Beware of the man who shoots one gun and one load."

My uncle too, had one hunting rifle, a "sporterized" 03-A3, original straight grip stock, fore end cut off to sporter length, sights removed, original finish and trigger, topped off with a post a post and cross hair K-4 Weaver. One load 165gr Hornady SP Mexican Match or reloaded with 4831 to the same specs. Never seen him miss or make a bad shot. In his later years he bought a used 788 in 22-250 for sod poodles.
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I bought my BIL two boxes of 100 Hornady 165 grain boat tail soft points so long ago I paid $9.05 per hundred. He likes pretty ammo, so I load them in nickel plated W-W cases with 55.0 grains of IMR-4350. This load has always performed perfectly here in Wisconsin at close range, and shot at longer distances in Wyoming when Doug hunted there.
He used to zero it at 200 when he hunted both States. Now it just get set dead on at 80 and left there. Each year. he sits down at my bench, fires one shot, looks through the scope and grins.
 
My Remington model 700, in 30-06, is my one and done gun for when I just need to shoot for the pot.
The load is, and has been for over 20 years, a Nosler 165gr. BT on top of 56gr. of IMR4350. It's sighted in at a 200 yard zero, and will consistently put 3 rounds in under an inch at 100.
I have a PLETHORA of other calibers to play with, from 22LR to 50 BMG for smokeless, and 36 to 54 in black powder.
Life is good!!
 
the 250 savage got a big reputation in the gun magazines for about 2 solid years.
stories about taking grizzly's, caribou, and ground chucks made it seem like the be all end all gun for every one.
it didn't take too long for the 0-6 and the7 Mauser to come back around again, and be the big 0-6/308 debate of it's time.
 
I grew up on the 30-06 with Hornady 150’s over a case stuffed to the brim with IMR4350. I always did well with that rifle and load.
My BIL shooting the awesome, great, never to be questioned 300 Win magnum, which was a laser. How can you stand shooting that 30-06? You need to get a 300WM.
I heard that from Mike, my Father And my brother. Damn I used to be able to hit stuff to 300 yards quite easily with the K4 Weaver. What went wrong?
Well I started looking at ballistics, yes my cartridge was not as flat shooting as the others, but point blank range was maybe 20 yards. I managed to compensate for my cartridges deficiency.
I’ve even since learned that the lowly 30-30 and others are actually quite solid performers.
I never got to deep into the “Magnum” mania. I did buy a 264 Win mag one time as it was priced right. I started comparing it to the old 30-06 and the improvements were in a couple minor areas and none were in the energy department. I sold the 264.
By the time I got into the 25-35, 30-30, 32 Spl in the 70’s and 80’s, the Remington cartridges were pretty much obsolete. And the 35 Remington was just about nonexistent. But in the 80’s Winchester came out with the 375 Big Bore rifle and the 375 Winchester cartridge.
So finally the Winchester line kinda got rounded out.
 
I never knew the 250 Savage as a new, whiz-bang cartridge. By the time I got to it, it was an under-powered weakling. Funny how as cartridges get older they get less potent.

To me, it's a low-pressure, "just enough" cartridge for many things. Living in Ohio, I can't use it for deer, but there are plenty of woodchucks and it's dynamite on woodchucks. A fella could get a lot of practice in over the spring and summer shooting woodchucks and then load up a box of 110 grain or 117 grain bullets to go somewhere else (at least in the east) to hunt deer in the fall.

I always thought it was supposed to be an underling to the 257 Roberts, but that marketing failure short-changed the 'Roberts (I CANNOT being myself to call that grand old cartridge "Bob") and the 257 and 250 sometimes run parallel in the loading manuals. BOTH could have benefited from a slight boost in pressure and come out looking like a new cartridge.

Personally, I could do all I need to do with a 250 Savage, without any sort of trickery. It can be outclasses out west pretty handily, but this side of the big river, it'll do about anything we need.

Still kicking myself for missing a chance at a Ruger M77 Ultra-Light in 250. And, HEY, it's a short-action cartridge, so it has all the manna and magic the short action affords!;)

OK, that was just mean. I'll shut up for a while.
 
Jeff H said:
I never knew the 250 Savage as a new, whiz-bang cartridge. By the time I got to it, it was an under-powered weakling. Funny how as cartridges get older they get less potent.
Personally, I could do all I need to do with a 250 Savage, without any sort of trickery. It can be outclasses out west pretty handily, but this side of the big river, it'll do about anything we need.
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My 250/3000 is a 1920 Savage with the cocking piece peep sight and factory front. It is really just fine for deer out here withing 250 yards, as long as you aren't shooting through bones. The older Speer 87 grain hunting bullet works just fine for heart/lung shots.

NRS 1st article savage 1920.jpg
 
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