Remember when “45 Auto” usually meant Colt?

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
It has often been said that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

There was a time, maybe 40-50 years ago, when a 1911 pistol would almost certainly have been manufactured by Colt, Springfield Armory (the U.S. government armory not the company) or one of the WWI, or WWII contractors such as Ithaca or Remington-Rand.

Sure, there were also licensed copies produced in Norway and Argentina for their respective militaries but that was about it.

When the U.S.A. wasn’t engaged in one of the world wars, Colt made models of the 1911 pistol for commercial sales in the civilian market. In the U.S.A., say 50 years ago; 1911 pistols in civilian circulation were likely either commercial models made by Colt, or former military pistols that had been deemed surplus or otherwise “separated” from their governmental owners.

There were gunsmiths and outfitters that made or modified a few parts for 1911 pistols. Oversized match barrels, lighter triggers, sights, specialized hammers, and sears, etc. could be purchased and fitted.

Then something extraordinary occurred, commercial 1911 style pistols began to be mass produced by other makers. Randall made all stainless steel 1911 models, Detonics made the Combat Master, a cut down 1911 and the Score Master, a full-sized pistol. AMT made a 1911 knock-off with a long slide. Auto-Ordinance got in the game. Springfield Armory – the private Company, appeared on the scene.

By the late 1990’s you could buy a brand new 1911 pistol that came out of the box with whatever combination of features you wanted. And it didn’t have to be made by Colt or some former government contractor. Companies like Kimber and Les Baer made match pistols. Asian companies began making inexpensive 1911 copies. Well established companies like Ruger and SIG started making their own versions of John Browning’s design. I can’t begin to list all the versions of the 1911 but I can say the field expanded greatly and shows little sign of shrinking.

The design is mature. All the quirks, tricks, and hacks have been well sorted out. Sure, the patents have long expired, but companies don’t make something just because they can – they make something because there is a demand for it.

Every now and then, something remarkable appears on the scene. The basic layout of a pick-up truck hasn’t changed in over 90 years. Sedans and hatchbacks exist because people find them useful. The cheap ball point pen has yet to be replaced. Not every smart phone is an Apple product, but they all have touch screens, cameras, and lots of memory for data.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
 
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Missionary

Well-Known Member
I remember well. August, 1971 A Co 1/66 Armor, Ft Hood TX. Issued a 1943 Colt 1911A1. I now forget the serial #. Rattled like a loose 1876 Winchester. Shot patterns at 25 yards. But it always fed, fired, ejected and loaded.
Was great fun to sit in the loaders hatch opening and pop away at jackrabbits using Gibson's bought Surplus 45 AP while cruising the miles of dusty tank trails.
 

smokeywolf

Well-Known Member
I think if I were going to want an early 20th century 1911 built by anyone other than Colt, it would be an old Singer made 1911. They can bring as much as $50,000, I'm told.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I think if I were going to want an early 20th century 1911 built by anyone other than Colt, it would be an old Singer made 1911. They can bring as much as $50,000, I'm told.
Yep, Singer only made 500 pistols before they got out of that game. But it is the low production numbers, nothing else, that make the Singer's desirable. In the end, even those rare examples were just another Government Model 1911A1 out of several million made.
 

Missionary

Well-Known Member
I am rather fond of our 1943 Remington Rand. A definite candidate of "I was there and served well".
I tried to "procure" my 1943 leaving Germany but was advised by our armorer that just one part was all it would take for me to be offered a 17 year re-enlistment.. So I bought the first one I saw for sale... It rides in a well used black tankers "chest holster". It just feels right and handy.
 
Ahh, Singers. Singer was known for producing fine precision machinery (sewing machines) for many years when Uncle Sam gave them a development contract to make the 1911A1 because they could see war coming.

Singer documented their entire process and then turned over the docs and the 500 or so pistols called for in the contract. They were arguably the finest 1911A1s ever made.

The last one I could find that sold went for $375,000.
 

Treetop

New Member
I can't tell you how many times that I have used this phrase, "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery", Petrol and Powder, when challenged by someone asking why I continue to EDC such a heavy, low capacity handgun in this age of the plastic, hi-cap, 9mms.

The weight was never a problem for me and I now consider it a comfort, I feel "funny" when that weight is not present on my belt. And, I consider "hi-cap" to be the most over rated, so called, advantage of the newer sidearms. Never in my wildest dreams, as a civilian, can I come up with a reasonable scenario where I would need to fire 15-20 rounds of ammo w/o reloading. Treetop
 
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RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
I can't tell you how many times that I have used this phrase, "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery", Petrol and Powder, when challenged by someone asking why I continue to EDC such a heavy, low capacity handgun in this age of the plastic, hi-cap, 9mms.

The weight was never a problem for me and I now consider it a comfort, I feel "funny" when that weight is not present on my belt. And, I consider "hi-cap" to be the most over rated, so called, advantage of the newer sidearms. Never in my wildest dreams, as a civilian, can I come up with a reasonable scenario where I would need to fire 15-20 rounds of ammo w/o reloading. Treetop
I became a LEO in 1970 and was issued a S&W Model 10, 6 inch. In my right front pocket I carried a Colt agent. On my belt were two 6 round dump pouches. I never felt under armed during the race riots in Cincinnati during that period. And that was after packing eight 20 round mags in Viet Nam. FWIW
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
When there is a successful design, imitation is likely to follow. This effect isn’t restricted to firearms, it occurs in every market. Sometimes the duplication is simply a result of practicality. Other times it is an acknowledgement of a superior set of features.

When patent protections have expired and a company elects to copy an old design, with little deviation from the original, this is a strong indication that original design was extraordinary. Take the Browning Hi-Power for example. Prior to FN dropping the Hi-Power from production, there were numerous copies being made around the world. Some of those copies were licensed by FN and some were not. The patents had long expired and there were huge numbers of copies in circulation (FEG, Argentine pistols, Indonesian Pindad produced pistols, Ingles Hi-powers, etc.). Despite the huge number of Browning Hi-Power pistols and copies of that pistol already produced; Springfield Armory decided to make the SA-35, a near clone of the Hi-Power. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
FN didn't have to go very far for the FN 35 ...... Probably had at least one set of tooling in some corner of the tool room .
 

PED1945

Active Member
The Browning Hi-Power is another example of a widely imitated pistol.
I grew up with the 1911. Dad carried one during WW2, Korea and other occasions where necessary. As a kid, the pistol I learned to shoot was a 1911. They were always available and ammo did not have to be bought (unlike 22 shells). I carried one on occasion in Viet Nam where I encountered the Browning High Power. Some of my Australian friends carried them and I had a chance to handle and shoot them. I decided I had to have one. On returning to the US, I promptly went to the post Rod & Gun club and ordered one. Still have it. With time, I have learned more about the history of this elegant design. It remains among my favorite pistols to shoot. My HP is much more accurate than the WW2 vintage Ithaca 1911-A1 that hangs next to it in my arms chest.
 

L Ross

Well-Known Member
I grew up with the 1911. Dad carried one during WW2, Korea and other occasions where necessary. As a kid, the pistol I learned to shoot was a 1911. They were always available and ammo did not have to be bought (unlike 22 shells). I carried one on occasion in Viet Nam where I encountered the Browning High Power. Some of my Australian friends carried them and I had a chance to handle and shoot them. I decided I had to have one. On returning to the US, I promptly went to the post Rod & Gun club and ordered one. Still have it. With time, I have learned more about the history of this elegant design. It remains among my favorite pistols to shoot. My HP is much more accurate than the WW2 vintage Ithaca 1911-A1 that hangs next to it in my arms chest.
I gotta say, as soon as I picked up a High Power my right hand was impressed. I was offered it at a good price. It is one of the Portuguese assembled pistols, not as elegant as an older pure FN but imminently serviceable and perhaps my favorite semi auto centerfire. My first Dept. would never have authorized a single action auto in a million years, and my second only did so very late during my service with them that I simply rode out my time with a Glock. I look back and am grateful to have never fired my service weapons in combat, but I would have liked to have carried the High Power.