Remington quality

[Ole_270]

I have a 700 BDL 270 I bought in 1972 that I wore the barrel out on and had Pac-Nor rebarrel. It's on its 2nd aftermarket stock just because I wanted synthetic on it. Shot fine with the original barrel after I bedded it, only had one box of factory loads through it, what I bought with the rifle.
Several years back I bought a 700ADL 223 with the synthetic stock before the sps version. Could hardly chamber a round, crushing the rim on some of the cases. Pulled the extractor to check if there was something under it, but the groove was clean. ended up grinding the extractor to get it to work. Ordered new parts with still the same problem. Guess the groove is out of spec. Still one of the most accurate rifles I've ever shot.
My son bought a wood stocked ADL 270 in the early 90s, I still haven't gotten it under 1 1/2" MOA.
Got another 700ADL a few years ago in 30-06. Shot patterns. Had Mickey Coleman put a 338-06 barrel on it, even he agreed that it didn't shoot as well as it should. This after I paid him to blueprint the action. He said some actions just don't work right no matter what you do to them, but he swore it wasn/t the Douglas barrel. It went down the road.
I grew up on 870s, still have two but just don't use them much since I got the Berettas and now Dickinson SxS. Traded one for an 1100 back in the late 80s and it was the worst trade I ever made. Heavier, finicky, I hated that thing even though I shot it well.

 

[Ian]

Fiver, you forgot them buying H&R and immediately driving a stake through its heart. Where are the $129 single-shot shotguns now? Rossi? Used?

 

[Ian]

Most rebarreled action on the planet, the Remington 700. Hell I don't know, maybe its the K98, but Remington is rebarreled because their barrels suck, not because no one wants an 8x57 for their custom sporter. Ask any gunsmith to show you their barrel of Remington tomato stakes, and then watch him laugh when you request a custom walnut, pillar-bedded stock job, refinish in rust blue, jewel the bolt, install express sights.......and keep the OEM pipe on it.

 

[todd]

back in the early '90s, i was a remmie boy, remington this and remington that. then the remington m7600 had heart failure. i forget the year, but the 7600 went from a good lookin rifle to what a POS. now, i like the 760, even tho i got rid of her on a trade. but the 7600 now, ehhhhhhhhh!!!!!!! stamped this, stamped that, plastic doohickeys...... the clerk took the 7600 off a gun shelf with rattles and taps galore, i was afraid to touch it. the person who had produced this POS should be drawn and quartered and hung for all to see!!!

the 700 adl and cdl went the same way as the 7600. the early m7 (18.5" barrel, which i still have) are great, but i don't know what they have done to them, other than the extra 1 1/2" barrel(20" i think?). i like the 700 bdl, but my caliber choice was not what i wanted, so i traded her. (i used to trade guns on a whim, back in the 90s). then in 1999, i was divorced and i had to pay my lawyer, so i sold most of my rifles. it took me about 10 years or so to begin my collection, AGAIN!!!!! i'll buy an MGM barrels to fit my tc encore(s). i bought a tc venture in 25-06 but the more i looked at it, i realized how cheap they were. so i traded her and i found that i just didn't like the "newer" rifles. the rifles and actions i buy now are dated 1950s and under. i don't buy my rifles to look at, as some collectors do. i take the action and look at barrel and i'll decide on it. i have a 98 mauser(1944) that was sporterized in the past but the barrel is still good. the bishop's stock was bent in the barrel channel so i am recently finishing a richard's gunstock.

one of the 93 spanish mauser (i have 2 ) needs alot of luv. right now, it needs a bolt bent, d&t for scope mount and take off the worn out barrel and replace it with green mountain barrel in 7x57 (this is done by my gunsmith). i have already placed a dayton trigger set on it. the next rifle will be 1898 springfield armory action in 22 hornet. 3rd gun will be by a 93 spanish mauser in 257 roberts. i have a 95 chilean mauser action and another 1898 springfield action that i have do too.

now if i get my handicaple butt and my left arm(don't have use of my right arm/leg) up and moving, i have a coat of lin-speed to be put on

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I find it interesting that some will complain of a decrease in quality but at the same time they will balk at an increase in price. This isn't specific to firearms, but since this is a firearm's forum, allow me to provide an example.

In the early 1960's, Winchester was bleeding money. Their production costs had increased and they were losing sales to Remington.
Remington had adapted to the post war economy quicker than Winchester. Remington introduced the Model 870 Shotgun in 1950 and the Model 721 in 1948. The Model 700 was introduced in 1962. The Remington products were far less costly to produce and outsold the Winchester products.
Winchester needed to adapt to the new reality or die. We all know what happened in 1964.

Winchester could have held onto their old school manufacturing methods and hoped that their customers would choose quality over price but that tactic clearly wasn't working. In order to survive they needed to reduce manufacturing costs like Remington had already done.

Winchester held on for a few more decades and eventually became extinct in all but name. Remington is now in the same spot Winchester was in back in 1964.

People like to complain about the loss of quality but the reality is very few people are actually willing to pay for quality.
Ultimately - THE FREE MARKET WILL CORRECT ITSELF.

 

[todd]

i don't mind paying the cost of a quality rifle. i know when i'm dead and gone, the money and time i put into them will go out the window. esp the wildcats!!!!

why would anyone take a 1898 springfield armory action and make it into a 22 hornet? do you know what cost you will have? just buy a cz 527 in 22 hornet!!!!! (cz makes a good product)

1. cause i can
2. don't care
3. i already thought about it
4. get off my yard, gawd durned it!!!!

 

[JWFilips]

Well Not sure if this pertains but I have brought the worst throat and bore Mil Surps back to pretty good target guns buy doing a proper Pound cast and fitting a bullet to that worn throat. PC bullets make a wash board bore almost good again! I don't know if I would ever give up on a rifle unless I could not do something to make it work for me

 

[Ian]

The push-feed Winchesters, up through the 80s anyway, believe it or not, are actually quite nice rifles. The 700 used to be, decades ago.

As for not being willing to pay for quality, well, when Ruger, Savage, Tikka, and Bergara all make an MOA-or-better rifle for $400-$800, why in the HE-- would I spend $1200 on an FN Winchester? If I just HAVE to have the CRF and FN niceness, well by golly I'll pony up, but too many companies are STILL making really decent shooters for really decent prices and making money doing so for me to have ANY sympathy for the likes if Remington going teats-up.

The cheapest Remington 700 I saw was $1119. Plastic everything. The equivalent stainless Tikka T3x was $679. That's MSRP for both. The Remington isn't even in the same league as Tikka. I don't know all the reasons Winchester and Remington spent the first part of the 21st century making rifles half the qualuty at nearly twice the price, but they did and indeed the market won't bear it. All I can say is quality AND affordability are STILL not mutually exclusive.

 

[Ole_270]

Well surprise surprise as Gomer would say. Threw away the cheap bases and rings that came on the rifle, changed out to Burris Weaver style bases and Signature Zee rings. With all the posts I've been seeing around the web about mis-aligned base holes and uneven heights we figured the self aligning inserts would be worth quite a bit. When I first swapped the factory scope to a Freedom 2-7 I tried lapping the rings, but was getting nowhere fast, slow, or at all. Got everything changed out this evening in time to sight in. After walking the shots to where I wanted I put 3 in a group of 5/8". So much better than before and considering that gouge in the bore really surprising.
Load was a reduced load I'm going to try for the Grandson. 28 gr H4895 under an 85 gr Sierra bthp Gameking. Wifes cousin killed many deer between 200-300 yards with this bullet at full speed, if I have my figures right it should match his 300 yard velocity at 100. Going to keep the kid under that 100 yard range.

 

[Ian]

Did you get by with the "zero" Burris inserts? I got an old Marlin that required the max offset in opposite directions (two insert kits purchased to get the parts) to put a neutral-set scope close to zero, but it shoots well too.

 

[Ole_270]

The zeros are what's in it now. I need to check it with a mirror to see how far off center it is. I've got the kit of inserts if needed. Had to get it for my old New Haven built M70 Classic featherweight 243. Luckily only used the lowest offset inserts on it.

 

[creosote]

The last two piece scope base I used was way off.
I made a file out of an old galvanized pipe on the lathe. It worked perfect.
By the time the sharp points were bent over, it was leveled good.

 

[L Ross]

I forgot about my Remington shotguns, this being a rifle centric forum. I have a pair of 1187's. Both SPS models, one in plastic and one in wood. My 870's were just too brutal in recoil once I started hunting in North Dakota and was shooting more shells a day. Both have performed flawlessly. I shoot hyper velocity steel shot hand loads in them. Drag them around in the North Dakota duck mud, in and out of a Grumman Sport boat, tromped on by a wet muddy dog, with nary a bobble.
Out in duck camp I tear down which ever one I happened to use or loan out that day and, (horror of horrors), clean and lubricate it. Maybe that is why they have been trouble free.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I have wanted a 6MM Rem for better then two decades. Not seriously looking. Just "wanted" for some time.
I have had three 243's and liked them all but also sold them all. I have a fair selection of 243 jwords on the shelf. From the excellent 85 BTHP's to 85&95 Partitions Ill always keep the Hornady 100G RN!! I still have a few boxes of Speer 105's too.

First choice would be a Ruger 77. which thinking about I probably should just buy a short action and have it barreled as Ruger bbls of that era where ... Well They suked. . Thisis first cause Ihave a beautiful Burl walnut stock sitting waiting...

Second would be a 700BDL of "older" Vintage.

Again just a want...

CW

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I am a fan of the 870 because it is an iconic design. Say what you will about the low cost stamped parts and cheap castings but that design just flat works. and it's been in continuous production since 1950 with over 11 million made. They must have done something right. The 1100 and later on 11-87 are largely based on the 870 design principals. I think the 11-87 is an improvement over the 1100 but it doesn't seem to get much love.

That being said, in the world of semi-auto shotguns, The Beretta 300 series are the best gas operated shotguns ever made, IMO and the Benelli inertia actions are the best of that system; again personal opinion.

 

[Ole_270]

After a number of years with the Beretta 391 I'd agree with you. Only gripe is the bulk of the receiver.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I have a Beretta 391 in 20 gauge that has tens of thousands of rounds through it. The only failure was a broken piston and I didn't know it was broken until I took the gun apart to clean it. The gun continued to function even after the part broke.
Beretta sent me a replacement part for free (it was actually an improved pattern).
I've seen many Beretta auto-loaders soldier on for decades without a hiccup.
I've read about ranches in Argentina that supply shotguns to their guests for bird hunting. The workload for those guns is incredibly high and they use Beretta 300 series guns because they don't fail.

 

[fiver]

CW I wouldn't build a 6mm on a short action.
[I wouldn't build anything X57 on a short action]
had a Remington it just never worked out quite right, the throat was long, the window for the ammo to come out of,, and the magazine wasn't.

 

[Rick H]

My 6mm Remington is on a med action. The Remington 788. I load to maximum magazine length (2.840")and it feeds and ejects just fine. My normal hunting load drives a 100 gr. SPBT Hornady Interlock at a tick over 3000 fps. from the 22" factory barrel and it is sub MOA. I used to use the Nosler solid base 95gr. until they replaced it with the plastic tip. Similar accuracy. I consider it a Jacketed bullet cartridge and see no disadvantage at all to the medium length action. Perhaps if I was shooting heavy long cast bullets jammed into the rifling I could use more length.

I like the 6mm Rem. but I really don't think it offers anything that the 243 Win. doesn't, and brass and ammo is available everywhere for the 243. I went with the 6mm way back when because the 788 in left hand action was only available in 6mm Rem and 308 Win. I have one of each. (and 3 magazines for each rifle too.)

 

[todd]

i don't know which is the best shotgun. i gave up small game hunting about 15 years or so ago. i used (gave it to my oldest son) a mossberg m500 in 12ga. with remington #6 heavy game load. it never failed me either. i used to hunt ringneck, grouse, rabbits and turkey. groundhogs, foxes and 'yotes were killed too, but its almost a afterthought. squirrels had the honor of dying to a 22lr in marlin m25.

my best friend had a rem m788 in 243 and he still luvs it. it doesn't matter which factory load you try, the 788 will do a subminute of 5 shots at 100 yards. my uncle has one, but it is chambered in 308. its a safe queen. i try and talk him out of selling the 788(to me, of course) but he says he will go hunting someday.

cw, i hunted and killed a few deer with the rem700 a,b and cdl and the m7 in 243. it disabused me of that caliber. i hunt in close cover, 50 yards is considered a long shot. 20ish yards is the average. every deer i killed went(after the shot) 100 - 200 yards, with one that went 230+/- thru the mountain laurel. i used hornady, nosler, speer, sierra and a barnes x bullets. rn, sp, ballistic tip, and monogenus in powders galore. my shoots were either double lung(behind the shoulder) or shoulder shots. the blood trail(s) were next to none, but i found them anyway. after a dozen or so deer, i gave up on the caliber and now i have a m7 in 7-08 that does the job(close cover) quite well.