Research: Cast Bullet Expansion 30-30, 375 Win, 45-70 (Handloader 260)

RBHarter

Well-Known Member
#3
IMG_20180802_152530674_LL~2.jpg IMG_20180802_152530674_LL~2.jpg IMG_20180107_172106924.jpg image.jpg
So the big picture I a 45-200 for a 45 ACP . All my stuff is packed still so I can't get a scale value . The top is a commercial cast 200 gr RN and is broken away . The other 2 are my 45-200 SWC expanded to .750 +- .

The middle pic is my NOE 460-543 it's too hard still with the pistol alloy . In stead of the heavy pistol alloy I'll run straight cores instead of tamper seals and WW 50/50 water dropped .

The bottom is a 200 gr spitzer from my own hack and gouge mould cast from 40/60 tamper seals and WW AC impact speed about 1450-1475 fps .
.690 @ 196 gr .

Monolithic alloys .
 

Brad

Administrator
Staff member
#4
Saw that article when it came out. Wasn't real impressed. He half asses stuff like the cast softnose.
With a little work it isn't that hard to get reasonable expansion with cast at reasonable velocities. Get over 2000 fps and it gets a bit tougher to get the bullet to hold together. Then again at those velocities a deer hit in the lungs is dead anyway.
 

John

Active Member
#5
John and I have been accused of looking like brothers from a couple of gun shops in Missoula. I never shot with him but don't believe he is a solid believer in cast other than as a cheaper bullet.
 

Elric

Active Member
#7
Well, if cast ain't his thang, by all means point us to a better author. Putting the round ball in the mold does not seem to offer a good bond between the two, and the Keane bullet didn't stay around... A big chunk of soft lead does not need hollowpointing, unless it is really, really slow....
 

Eutectic

Active Member
#8
Putting the round ball in the mold does not seem to offer a good bond between the two,

Well, if cast ain't his thang, by all means point us to a better author.
The ball and the poured in alloy have to fuse together..... That takes heat, and he didn't have it! Hint..... The ball has to be very hot when dropped in the mold.... Just below the melt point in fact. Alloy and shape and various HP configurations will get you just as far as balls in your nose.

Elric, you are probably better off reading here on this forum than anything I saw in that article.

Pete
 

RicinYakima

Well-Known Member
#9
Here is how I did it once, to make twelve 45/70 bullets. In the 22 pound SAECO open top pot I melted 18 pounds of WW's plus 2% tin. Floating on top was a small stainless steel ash tray, about 3 inches. In the ash tray were the .36 caliber pure lead round balls. Drop in a preheated round ball, close the plate and pour in the body metal from the ladle that has been floating on the top of the melt. When you get the temperature right, the added heat from the mould and body metal will melt the ball and have little or no seams. You have to hold the ladle long enough to mush everything together.

So it works, but major PITA. Plus they didn't expand any better than 1/2 and 1/2 wheel weights and pig lead done the conventional way.
 

Brad

Administrator
Staff member
#12
I made a ladle from a 9mm or 40SW case and some wire.
For the small number you need for a few years it isn’t too bad.
 

John

Active Member
#13
The ball and the poured in alloy have to fuse together..... That takes heat, and he didn't have it! Hint..... The ball has to be very hot when dropped in the mold.... Just below the melt point in fact. Alloy and shape and various HP configurations will get you just as far as balls in your nose.

Elric, you are probably better off reading here on this forum than anything I saw in that article.

Pete
I tried BruceB's methods of a 32 cal pb ball dropped in to the nose and heated in the top of the pot for 90-120 seconds. I got good adhesion with an mostly even line. I am still more comfortable with making a bigger hole.
 

KHornet

Well-Known Member
#14
The little dipper that Brad describes works very well for soft nose
cast with hard base. On 30 cal bullets IMO you only need about
1/4 of the bullet soft (pure lead works fine. For me, a small pot
of soft or pure on a hot plate adjacent to the furnace works fine.
I bottom pour most of mine, but for a batch of soft nose I prefer
to Ladle cast. Don't need a whole whoop of these, just enough
for testing and about 8-10 for Deer season. jFor those who are
real perfectionists look up Bruce B's method.. I never did see a
need for soft nose handgun bullets, but to each his own.

Paul
 

KHornet

Well-Known Member
#16
I did the alum foil split on 385 and 405 grain .458's.
I had the foil just a tat below the end of the nose.
Over 22 gr of 2400 in my #1 45-70. They shot quite
accurately to 50 yds, and blew a very large exit hole
on the reverse side of a 4x4. Never played much with
them beyond that point. Remember casting them
fairly soft.

Paul
 
#17
anybody tried the tin foil split/sheet divider in the mold? REAL results?
I have an old American Rifleman from 68 that allowed members to state their own loads. Author spoke about the divider in the nose and the caution to have no one standing downrange as occasionally the 10 yard targets showed two holes, evidence it was splitting out of the muzzle. IIRC he used check tear off stubs from a commercial check book. This was obviously from when a check was a substantial piece of paper. For the 30's and up I am not sure much expansion is needed with a flat meplate and a well placed projectile.