Rock Island Arsenal 1903 Rifles

[Charles Graff]

I was doing a bit of musing this morning and recalled a conversation I had in the early 1980s with a retired Colonel who was an Ordnance officer. His first posting, as a newly minted 2nd. Lt. in 1940, was to Rock Island Arsenal. As low man on the totem poll it fell to him handle the physical transfer of the 1903 rifle production equipment to Remington in 1941.

He told me that in June 1919 when Rock Island ceased production of the 1903 rifle, the main switch was pulled and everybody walked out of the facility which was padlocked when the last man had left. He said it was an spooky place that had set for decades just as it was, at the minute the switch was pulled. There were bins of parts, stacks of stocks, rifles in all stages of assembly and the work still in the machine tools. Nothing had been touched and nothing had been removed.

His job was to see that everything was crated and packed and did the paperwork for the transfer to Remington. Remington got it all, everything that was on the production line including all the stocks of parts and partially assembled rifles. I have often wondered how much of that stuff found it's way into the 1903 rifles produced by Remington.

 

[freebullet]

What a sight that would've been.

I've been through some abandoned properties that give you that feeling, as if it were a picture of the moment it was abandoned. Creepy and not as cool as a gun plant for sure.

 

[RicinYakima]

I was just in one last week: McIlvaney Machine Works in Yakima, WA, operated from 1909 to 1992. They made the Century lathes and drill presses for the Navy and Merchant Marine boats in WWII and had 102 employees in 1945. Everything over head shaft drive and leather belts. The whole thing has been sold to a business in India.

 

[Rick]

Yeah, I heard India was trying to step it up and go high tech.

 

[RicinYakima]

The soon to be most populated country in the world has 90% of the people living the same as a 100 years ago. I was told that there is a large demand for simple machines to make ox cart wheel bearings, simple gears for farm equipment, etc. Other than walking, the most used form of transportation is the bicycle. FWIW,

 

[Rick]

Yeah, that was a bad joke. I recently saw a documentary on India, made me appreciate America all the more. That would be a better option than a museum for such machinery. Would seem that by the time they paid for crating and shipping they would be able to buy newer in EU though. It must be paying off or they wouldn't be doing it.

 

[358156hp]

I'm guessing they're after simple to use, manual production machinery. India has a high-tech side, but it is hamstrung by lack of education, lack of technical support in supporting type technology (metallurgy for example), and really poor work & business ethics. The companies we dealt with in a prior job would blatantly lie to you to quiet you down. The next shipment would have the same issues as before, but with a few bonuses thrown in.

 

[Bret4207]

I read a article by a guy who was having hand pump castings, the old farm type water pump, made in China. Every order he got would be 80% flawed castings. After the 3rd time of sending 80% of the castings back he hopped on a plane and went to the foundry in China. Went down on the floor with the plant manager and showed him what the problems with the castings were and why he was sending so many back. The way he described it was like a light suddenly went on in the managers head. The manager says, "Oh!!! So you only want the GOOD ONES????!!!" .

I've read other reports from India that run about the same level.

 

[358156hp]

Pretty much. I'm totally unimpressed with the quality and safety of much of the "offshore" offerings.

 

[Charles Graff]

You can get both high quality good and junk from China and India. You tell them how much you want to spend, and they will make it to fit your price. This is quite unlike what we do in America where we strive to make high quality goods and then set the price. A good example is Norinco in China who makes good quality firearms albeit without the high end finish.

Here is my Norinco 1911A1 and Norinco Uzi Carbine clone. They are both good sound firearms.

 

[smokeywolf]

When I closed the MGM Metal Shops in early to mid 2002, I would occasionally get a chill up my spine when wandering through the shop and thinking about all the machinists, welders, sheet metal men and plating & polishing shop personnel who had spent some or all of their careers in that building. In it's hay day, the MGM Metal Shops ran round the clock and employed as many as 40+ men; half of them machinists. I ran the shop from 1995 to 2002 and was the last man out. The bldg. that the shop was housed in was an old daylight shooting stage from about 1915. It was disassembled in 1923 and moved from the Northeast end of the studio to the South and middle area of the lot. Most, if not all machinery was driven by overhead leather belt. In 1981, we still had 3 lathes and 3 drill presses that were flat leather belt drive.
In 1985 the shop bought a new Bridgeport mill and lathe and a new Wilton horizontal band saw. That mill, plus a lathe and a couple of pickup truck loads of tooling was my remuneration for liquidating the assets in the shop in 2002.

As far as Chinese and Indian products go, I avoid them as much as is possible and practical.

smokeywolf

 

[Pistolero]

Been to India. They run the gamut from 15th century lifestyles to 21st century lifestyles, all mixed
together. I have seen old men with one white rag wrapped around his head and another one wrapped
around his loins plowing behind a bullock with a wooden plow, unchanged since perhaps 1000AD.
A few miles later, a medium sized tractor was plowing a field, not exactly Kansas in 2015, but at
least 1965.

In Russia I have seen a crew of men pitching hay up onto a hay pole with three pronged wooden forks
in one field and five miles away a field full of round bales. Not everyone can afford new tech at the
same time.

My wife's grandfather died of a heart attack in the field plowing behind mules in 1968 in Mississippi,
he never owned a car, never drove a car, as did his wife who died just a few years ago at 106. Not
everyone has the money for the latest stuff.