Saeco 052 148 WC

Rally Hess

Well-Known Member
Just got a mould Glen was selling on Swap/ sell in the mail this weekend. I'd not cast with a Saeco 4 cavity before so was itching to try it out. The mould looked like new when I got it and Glen packaged it well for the trip. Put 30 lbs through it this evening. Cast a nice round clean bullets. Drops at .359 and weighed 150 gr. with my alloy of 17 lbs of COWW and 5 ounces of pewter.
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Had to drill out a set of RCBS handles to fit the Saeco, which had larger screws (3/16") than the RCBS handles would accept. Wrote Saeco on the handles for future reference.
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The Saeco has a pretty neat hinge on the sprue plate. It is center left hinged and pivots in a circle when opened. Took a little getting used to but pretty handy once you get the hang of it.
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If my math is correct there should be @1400 in the bowl. Now if I only had some empty .38 brass.
 

Ben

Moderator
Staff member
Those 4 banger SAECO's are super nice moulds. You can suspend you account at the Gym for now. Working with that one will give you an upper arm work out that will rival all that gym equipment.

Ben
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Looks like they are well vented too.
And yes Ben, a 4 cav steel mould is a handful. I have a few 4 cav brass moulds and they wear me out after an hour or so.
 

Ben

Moderator
Staff member
They will last a long time, you the user....maybe not a real long time.

Ben
 

Dale53

Active Member
Rally Hess;
That is a FINE lookin' mold. When I was shooting IPSC along with my two young sons, I used a pair of Saeco #69 molds for the .45 ACP. Over a five year period, I cast bullets and shot 75,000 rounds. My two sons, together, probably shot about half that much. So, my Saeco molds got quite a workout.

Rally, that particular bullet is quite similar to my original four cavity H&G #50 (148 gr button nose wadcutter). That design shoots VERY well and yours, is a near perfect size for most .38 Special revolvers. Mine is just slightly smaller. I size to .358" with my alloy and it just "skims" the surface when lubing in my Star lube/sizer. We are a couple of fortunate people...

Regarding casting with a four cavity steel or brass mold:
I am soon to be 83 years of age. There are no more marathon casting sessions in my future (I once cast 13,000 bullets over a weekend with those two Saeco .45 molds, with my sons sizing and boxing them and feeding me melted alloy in a separate 29 lb electric pot). However, I still cast a 22 lb. pot of alloy at one sitting regardless of caliber. Yeah, the .32's make a lot more bullets than the heavy .45 Colt does, for the same amount of casting alloy. The small bullets give you more per pot but, also, require many times more effort... Of course, at my age, that ability may leave tomorrow. I'll be doing it as long as I can (I can still shoot reasonably well with my revolvers, etc). But, when it is over, I will NOT be whining because I didn't do it when I could. :)>)).

I admit that I am ready to quit by the time the pot is empty. Yes, I REALLY like my five and six cavity aluminum molds, but I have little problem with my four cavity iron molds. However, my six cavity H&G for the dbl ended W/C DOES present a bit of a problem. They weigh nearly five pounds with the handles and THAT is surely tiring. Just think, "back in the day" H&G made some ten cavity iron molds that we could handle without issue. Those days are GONE, forever!! :)>()...

fWIW
Dale53
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I have the lyman version of that with the tiny lube grooves.
I still only fill the bottom groove.
they will go just about double the speed everyone shoots them,, and still hold accuracy just in case your thinking about it.
 

VZerone

Active Member
I have the lyman version of that with the tiny lube grooves.
I still only fill the bottom groove.
they will go just about double the speed everyone shoots them,, and still hold accuracy just in case your thinking about it.

I too have a Lyman four cavity wadcutter mould, forget the number at the moment, but it's the one listed as a 141 grain bullet. With the alloy I use mine cast a 148 grain bullet. Inaddition to shooting it I use it to swage into other styles of bullets.
 

Dale53

Active Member
fiver;
You bring up a good point. “Back in the Day”, E.H. Harrison (NRA’s Reloading Manual) ran extensive machine rest tests and determined that using the NRA developed lube (Alox and Beeswax), that lubing only one groove, improved accuracy. Later, Ed Harris of the NRA Technical Staff (and Ruger Developement Engineer) did extensive work on both the target wadcutter and the “Full Charge Wadcutter”.

Using a cast wadcutter similar to the O.P. for target use I use somewhat more powder than the old recommended charge of 2.7 grs. of Bullseye. Ed Harris found, with extensive machine rest testing that 3.0-3.2 grs. of Bullseye gave better accuracy with the cast wadcutter for target use. My own tests with a Ransom Rest confirmed, so I used 3.2 grs. with my own .38's when shooting NRA Bullseye or PPC target work.

Now, for general range use and small game use (as well an excellent choice for EDC (if you believe in using reloads for self defense) is a full charge wadcutter (3.5 grs. of Bullseye or equivalent). This is within the pressure of SAAMI standards but is VERY effective.

So, for target use, 3.0-3.2 grs. of Bullseye. For use in the field, 3.5 grs. of Bullseye behind a cast wadcutter. All above comments are with .38 Special cases. I even use those .38 Special cases/loads in my .357's with excellent results (confirmed by machine rest tests).

FWIW
Dale53
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I'm running 6grs. of bulls-eye in a 357 case under some of mine. [and have used a bunch of 2400 a few times]
I have shot some of them so slow I could literally watch them arc to the target at 50'.
for fun everyday go poke holes in paper, and knock down soda can stuff, 3grs. of b-eye or red-dot does seem to be the better more accurate choice between the extremes.
 

Rally Hess

Well-Known Member
Ben,
This is a relatively small/ light mould, compared to some of my brass moulds. I was actually wishing there was a little more surface area on the sprue plate, nearest the handle hinge, to avoid some run off. I finally figured out it didn't need much pressure and it was a joy to cast with.

Dale,
I have a pair of the 148 WC moulds and have used them for years, in fact this is my second pair of that mould. I sold a pair to my shooting buddy when I left Germany. I looked this bullet up before I bought it and like the design. I only figure on using the lower two lube grooves. It drops at just shy of .359, but I have a lot of tin in the alloy. The wife and I did a little weekend run and we stopped at a couple "Estate Sales". I bought 30.5 lbs of near pure lead, in the form of a failed attempt to make downrigger weights, for $5.00. Stopped at a junk shop where the wife has known the owner for years. This place is an old auto parts store, metal shelving and all, completely filled with "stuff". The couple that own it keep it very well organized and clean. They have been at it for 33 years and getting tired of looking at some of the stuff. I told her I needed some pewter and she asked how much, to which I replied all of it if the price is right. She grabbed a box and we went through her pewter shelf like bagging groceries! Ended up with 27.07 pounds for $40.00. To be honest some of the pieces will be hard to melt. I appreciate some of the effort into making it. I'm sure the wife will "high grade" it also when she gets a chance to look at it. She knows folks dealing in this pewter and has feelers out for broken stuff to melt. She takes pretty good care of me at her garage sales, getting solder and traps.
When the wife got home Friday from work she just wanted to go somewhere. I buy my cigarettes at the Casino on the ND/SD border along I29 (Dakota Magic Casino), and save $50.00 a carton compared to Mn. prices. They give me a 15% discount on food, cigarettes, and lodging being a veteran. I called before we left but they were booked full with a horseshoe tournament, so we stayed in Fargo Friday night. Went to the casino Saturday morning and they had a cancellation on a suite, but it would be $147.00 with vet. discount! I'm pretty cheap so figured that was out. The wife said she wanted to gamble some and would go win enough for a room. HA-HA the clerk and I said. I went and got my cigarettes and went out to my van and dialed up this site on my Ipad. I hadn't been in the van 5 minutes and the wife called me and said she won $326.00, get the room she wanted to stay! Which I did. Picture this red neck in a suite with a hot tub in the room. I don't gamble so just took the Ipad to the room and was just getting settled in(like 25 minutes) when the wife called again. She had won another $652.00, and I needed to get dressed and come cash her ticket in, which I did. Took the winnings back to the room with me. Fired up the hot tub and was gonna get in and she calls again. She needed me to come get another $623.00! She was tired now so we went and enjoyed a nice prime rib buffet. It was outstanding too, with real good deep fried shrimp. Used the hot tub a couple hours and she wanted to go gamble a little more. LOL I gave her back $100.00 and she lost it all. LOL All said and done she ended up winning a little over $1100.00 with the room deduction. Good winnings, good food, 30 lbs of lead and a deal on pewter. Good weekend!

Lamar,
The RCBS 148 has the small lube grooves also. I've tried up to 4.0 grs of BE with it, but it was tough on bunnies and the wife didn't like the recoil. I kinda settled on my last bunch at 3.2 and they shoot well in my S&W's. I like the larger grooves on this Saeco and it should size well in my Star at .358 with one set of holes blocked off, which also works for my NOE 160 and 180 WFN moulds. I'm hoping I don't need to change the sizer for nose first sizing. I have it set up for .430 now and don't have any .38 empty brass right now anyway.
 

Rally Hess

Well-Known Member
Looks like we were all posting at the same time and came up with the same loads. Funny how that works out.
 

VZerone

Active Member
I cast them from a soft alloy, lube and freecheck them, then swage them into other nose profiles such as SWC's, RN's, and often hollowpoints and drive them fairly fast and they are explosive on varmints.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I think it happens because we all tried this that and the other over the years and finally went well it al works about as good as red-dot oor whatever, which I also use in the [insert cartridges here] too.
so I might as well just buy a couple of jugs of that and move on to shooting.
 

Rally Hess

Well-Known Member
There's been a lot of study on BE and WC bullets. There used to be a lot of guys shooting S&W Mod 52's that could only go so far either way to get reliable functioning. IIRC they were kinda restricted to the 3-3.5 range without some spring work. I'm not sure that is exact and only as good as my memory, which is getting shorter all the time.
 

Dale53

Active Member
Rally, I really enjoyed your post. Mine won’t be so colorful:sigh:...

I am pretty much limited, by age, to recreational shooting these days. Until the last year or so, I have been shooting my 625’s more than the rest. I just flat LOVE those revolvers. However, a year or so, ago, I increased my shooting of my S&W Model 520 (4” composite barrel, 7 shot, with titanium cylinder, and Red Dot sight). It is so pleasurable to shoot (.38 Special W/C), uses less powder and lead, and... that it often gets chosen:



On the other hand, the next time, I just may grab the .45ACP /.45 Colt Ruger SS Bisley Convertible I have been recently working with.

For now tho’, that .38 wadcutter load is getting a workout...

P.S. I must confess, however, that the 520 is wearing my favored grips, Packmayr Grippers, instead of the Rosewood grips, pictured. Yeah, I am a heretic to many, but that is what works for me!

Dale53
 

VZerone

Active Member
My Ruger Blackhawk with the 45acp cylinder is so incredibly accurate that I never bought a 625 S&W which I thought I wanted so badly.

I have shot a lot of 38 special from my Model 19 S&W and it's not only accurate, but pleasant to shoot. Makes the light Model 19 last longer too!
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I favor my 625 over my black hawk by quite a bit.
I have it set up as a point the front sight [at anything within 30 yds] and press the trigger gun for the house and for trail riding.
 

Rally Hess

Well-Known Member
Dale,
We're heretics together then. I just looked at my pistols and found only two with wood grips on them. A mod 17-4 and a High Standard Sport King. The rest all have Pachmayr in one configuration or another. I can live with public opinion. LOL

Lemar,
I had a new 625 on lay away at a shop I worked at. Was working it off doing remodeling at night. Then an old Browning A5 came in used. It was 60% at best. I took the A5 and some loading components instead of the 625. Had the A5 sent to RVA and they did a nice job making it look decent. I've still got it and have shot a bunch of birds with it. Had a 25-5 for awhile and not sure where that went.
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
not being able to find a 25-5 is what prompted me into getting the 625, that and I had my choice of 4 or 5" barrels.
the convertible black hawks hadn't really hit the stores here yet so I jumped all over the 624 and haven't regretted it a second.
except when I had to pay for those AR cases I ordered LOL