Scope Recommendation

Ian

Notorious member
Talked to a Vortex sales representative last week, he said they're drowning in orders, likely won't even start to catch up until May. Production is down due to the Wuhan so quality is suffering a bit too as critical people are sick or quarantined.

I consistently get more out of a 12 than a 9 BUT if that 12 doesn't start at a $500 price point you won't find any setting higher than about 8 or 9 to be useful anyway due to edge distortion, poor focus,, low light transmission, and small exit pupil diameter (even with a 50mm objective).

For target work you need plenty of magnification, clear and fine crosshairs, good lenses and coatings, and sturdy construction. There is one way to get all that at an "affordable" price point and that is by going to a fixed power target scope which trades features for quality. The only problem is fixed-power target scopes are not popular and don't provide economy of scale for the manufacturers, so there are no inexpensive ones. A Weaver fixed T24 or T36 target scope will blow your mind...they do one thing and do it very well for $450 but deliver the same image quality and precision of variable power, adjustable parallax (or FFP) scopes costing twice as much or more.
 
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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Ian reinforces several good points.
When it comes to optics, everything is a compromise. A change to one part of the equation, such as increased magnification, will result in changes to other parts of the equation (such as decreased light transmission, smaller exit pupil, increased distortion, higher weight, higher cost, less eye relief, etc.)
THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH WHEN IT COMES TO OPTICS.
Simply increasing magnification will result in a loss somewhere else. When done properly (read that as "not done cheaply") a decent compromise can be achieved. However, "done properly" is never cheap. It costs money to minimize those necessary compromises and you can never minimize them completely away.

Another good point made by Ian is the value of a fixed power scope for a specific role. It is unfortunate that fixed power scopes are not popular. As Ian correctly points out, the reduced demand for fixed power scopes hinders the economy of scale for the manufacture of good fixed power scopes. A fixed power scope (such as a high magnification target scope) does one thing and it does it well.
The simplicity of a fixed power scope does allow the manufacturer to make fewer compromises in terms of optical quality.

When it comes to optics - YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.
 

Winelover

North Central Arkansas
I'm a firm believer in you get what you pay for in optics. Most of my conventional hunting scopes are VX III's or Trijicon Accupoints. Don't own any 3 x 9's, except for the one Accupoint. Back then it only came that way. The largest power hunting scope is a VX III in 4 x 12 on a 270W. I own one Burris 6 x 24 in detachable rings.....used for load development on my AR-10...........I also like to see flies on the target. Otherwise, a Trijicon Reflex is the norm.

I've only had to send one Leopold back............a VX III (1.5 x 5) with lighted reticle. Didn't like the fact that the rheostat detents weren't positive clicks and light was erratic. They finally got it right after returning it twice.

Have a couple of Vortex's..........1 x 4 with lighted reticle and a 2 x 7 Scout type for load development on a 357 Rossi lever. Also in QD rings...............switching to a red dot after that. Vortex's aren't too bad, I like their warranty. Though they are in the category of I wouldn't stake my life on or a trophy deer, for that matter. OK, for plinkers.

My spotting scope is a Leopold gold ring compact. IIRC, it zooms up to 38 power. That thing tripled in price, since I purchased it new, in the early 90's. You can see a gnat on the target at 100 yards.
 

Charles Graff

Moderator Emeritus
Please disregard the following from an old geezer who is just not with it when it comes to scopes. I have not bought a new scope in 40 years.

A hunting scope for brush/woods is a 2.5 - 3 X. An open country scope is a 6X. A do-all scope is a 4X. For spotting holes, well use a spotting scope of 20X or more. The purpose of a rifle scope is not to magnify the target but puts everything in one focal plane. I can shoot bench groups with a good peep as I can with a scope and groups as small with a 4X scope as a 12X scope.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Two ten-shot targets at 200 yards CBA Records:

Issue Military Rifle: 3.402 inches

Modified with Iron Sight: 3.143 inches

Modified with 6X scope: 2.871 inches

The only advantage to higher powder is to precisely see poorly defined targets, as in hunting from stands and trying to pick a hole through the brush in dim light. My experience working at "sight in days" at the county range before hunting season, other than at a solid benchrest, 90%+ of hunters shoot better with 3X than 9X. The moving cross hairs make them jerk the trigger.

My first thirty years of big game hunting I used a 2.5X Lyman Alaskan, now I have added some 4x and 6X. First varmint only scope was a 3X9 Leupold, but now straight 6X Leupold. But I have target scopes that are 6X18X, 20X, and 36X. Try to the right one for the right job.

IMHO, Ric
 

Glaciers

Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
You guys are far better than me. I've not had much rifle practice once I started on the water in the late 80's. Don't need a rifle rusting up out in the big water.
I'm sure I will improve especially if I stop drinking coffee a couple hours before. Now that's hard.

I just need all the help I can get.
 

Winelover

North Central Arkansas
The problem, I have with open sights/peep sights, I can't see them at dawn or dusk..................the optimum time for deer movement.

The main reason, I equip my hunting firearms with red dots or lighted reticles. And yes, I've tried different colored beads and light pipes.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
I feel better now . I've begun to struggle the GI V rear and A front type . The U ° is still usable for me and I actually shoot peeps fairly well even where I need hold over .

If all I could I have was a 4x or 6x "30-30" duplex scope I'd be perfectly happy .
 
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RKJ

Active Member
I'm sure no scope expert but I've found I can see a target dot at 200 yards much better with 12x than I can with 9x. If you can find a Nikon Buckmaster or Prostaff 4x12 I think you would like it. They're in the same category as your Vortex though and they are getting out of the scope business, but I like the ones I have very much.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I'm squarely in Charles' camp.
Low power (1.5, maybe 2 power) for hunting in brush.
4 power, maybe,,, 6ish for open field hunting.

Spotting scopes for........wait for it.......SPOTTING !

For hunting applications, you could spend your entire life east of the Mississippi with a 1.5 x 6 or a 2 x 7 power scope and never need more.

Target shooting is an entirely different ball game.
Hunting over long open spaces is also a different ball game. (not that it occurs much on the east coast)
 

Glaciers

Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
I'm squarely in Charles' camp.
Low power (1.5, maybe 2 power) for hunting in brush.
4 power, maybe,,, 6ish for open field hunting.

Spotting scopes for........wait for it.......SPOTTING !

For hunting applications, you could spend your entire life east of the Mississippi with a 1.5 x 6 or a 2 x 7 power scope and never need more.

Target shooting is an entirely different ball game.
Hunting over long open spaces is also a different ball game. (not that it occurs much on the east coast)

Hunted and lived in Utah, Colorado, Wyoming in my early years. Most deer and antelope was minimum 100 yards to 300 plus. Under 100 yards rare. Started out with 2 power scope and after while moved up to a 4 power.
Fast forward, moved to Alaska and hunting was often under 100 and at uncomfortable times end of barrel distances. Lot of open and receiver sites with the 1x4 and 2x7 getting the nod. Some open ground for moose, but mostly closer.
And I don't hunt anymore because it's to much work. Sacking up a moose is work for 3 people let alone one. Last hunt I did was for Sitka deer on Hinchinbrook Island in Prince William Sound. Shooting a 125 pound critter with a 338 or larger was overkill for Bambi, but more comfortable for the coastal Brownies.
 

Charles Graff

Moderator Emeritus
Location is a BIG part of the equation.

Correct! In 1959 I bought a new Winchester 70 Featherweight in 243 Win and topped it with a Weaver K4 scope. In 1961 I transferred college to Sul Ross in the Texas Big Bend and replaced the scope with a K6 for the open country. I took Mule Deer, Whitetail deer and Pronghorn with that combination. It served me very well indeed.
 

L Ross

Well-Known Member
Hunting scopes I use are K3 Weaver with a post and cross hair, a K4 Weaver with a post and cross hair, a Leupold Vari-XIII 1.5x5, (my favorite), and a Leupold M8 4X with duplex.

Then I started dabbling with target shooting with cast and .22. My good gunsmith friend told me Leupold was discontinuing their Mark AR Mod-1 6x18 Mil-Dot scopes for some reason and prices were drastically cut. I bought 1, after realizing the precision of being able to crank those turrets back and forth with complete precision and then the revelation that Mil-Dots made for me I had to have more. I bought everyone I could get when Midway put them on even further reduction. Some of the guys I shoot with picked one up, and then.....there they were, gone! Now they wish they had more.

So I have 5 identical scopes on 5 rifles that all look the same, work the same, allow me to think in one system, and when you are working with the same velocities and trajectories, share data from one rifle to another.

What fun! I zero for my 80 yard berm with my Springield or a .308 shooting the XCB or Lee 312-155-2R with a muzzle velocity of 1,600 fps. I hold the crosshair dead on at 80, hold over one Mil at 160, and hold up two Mil at 210. Clank, clank, clank, no clicks, no counting, hold and shoot. The 18X allows self spotting and the horizontal Mil Dots make windage a breeze. I feel like Gronk who crawled out of a cave and discovered a Microwave.

I worked out actual drop figures for my .22's from 50 yards out to 300 in ten yard increments. I liked that so much I did 50 to 225 in 5 yard increments. I can now grab either of my target .22's and dial or hold a hit anywhere in there and know with certainty I am going to get a hit.

When next Spring comes I am going to do the same with my cast bullet .308's and the 03A3 from 50 out to 440 yards. I could not have done this without having upgraded my optics.
 

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Yesterday, I discovered a Bushnell Legend 4-12X40 is a definite improvement over the Vortex Crossfire II 3-9X40, at least magnification wise. My local friend and occasional shooting pard let me gaze through his Bushnell and compare it to my Vortex. At 200-yards, the range's maximum distance, a 3" outlined circle (not a solid black bull) was that much large enough to convince me I want to replace the Vortex.

Presently, I have enough to keep my 50-yard and 100-yard shooting busy, so there is no particular hurry, but will be keeping a sharp lookout for after-Christmas sales.

Found this at Cabela's, plus I have a $10 discount coupon:

Additionally, I have two Bushnells sitting in my RCBS veterans' discount shopping cart.
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
I gotta agree with ya. Altho I dont have a variable Vortex I have used and looked tbru them.
I bought a Bushnell Trophy EXTREAM 2.5-10. WOW WOW WOW Color me impressed!!
Few months later, I ran across a deal on this exact scope with the DOA reticule 100$ if I bought all three. (Quick call to two buddies and I sold two of the three )
Then a few months later I bought a Bushnell 2-16 FORGE on a STEAL of a deal! (300$)
THESE SCOPS ARE EVERYTHING ANY LEUPOLD I EVER SAW EVER WAS!!

IM A FAN!!

I just bought a BANNER2 for my RARR 350 Legend. I know its a cheapo. I know it's bottom of there line. Its the price point I wanted it had a reticule that I was wanting. As I searched, I found another deal @ Fleet farm for this scope cost was 88$ SHIPPED! I have received & mounted the scope and Im pleased as can be.

Ill look at Bushnells again if & when I need a scope!!

CW
 

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
CW,
The RCBS veterans' program offers some very nice Bushnell price reductions. The scopes I'm interested in seem to have discounts in the $75 range, and that drops Engage and Prime into my price range.
Several scopes are not in stock, but I signed up for an e-mail notification and may put them in the cart, too.

In my area, I know of only two other casters/reloaders, though only to talk to them at the range. Therefore, almost all I have done and continue to do is solo or with the help of this site's members. My local friend does reload and I cast for him, but the last three years he's been concentrating strictly on .22 RFs. So it was a real treat to see first hand the difference that extra 3X made. Now I can buy a 12X and know it'll work.