Sharing Revolver Skills

I've been using the square cut Mika pocket holsters for about ten years, daily, without any wear issues.

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The first one pictured is his standard square cut. The second one I had him add one inch to the bottom and one side. Some pants pockets are too wide and cause the firearm to rotate forward, making it a challenge to draw. Mika gave me grief over it but I prevailed and I'm happy with my choice!

His holsters are very reasonable and have built-in stays to keep it from collapsing upon re-holstering. He offers a choice of colors..........I opted for black for the second one ...........easier to tell apart. His other offerings include a holster that lacks the bottom and side extensions. I found no need for that style. IIRC, Glaciers has one of those.

That's my shrouded Bulldog in that J-frame sized holster...............all my carry pieces, including the semi-auto fit in as well.
Bob lives not far from me. I requalified for my HR-218 two years with Bob. His requal paper work from LAPD is very simple and a lot more sensible for a retiree than the nonsense I have to go through.
I can't even use my CCW gun because I have to shoot the full State of Wisconsin DOJ course with a full size duty gun and gun belt. Stupid.
 
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I have really grown to like the Remora IWB holster for carrying ease. I’m 6’2” and 190 pounds and they fit in the hollow of my hip- like the “Mexican Carry” holsterless method we used growing up.
I have them for my Rossi snub .38, S&W Shield40,
Tisas Commander, and the S&W 4” M&P .38 round butt.
I forgot the S&W M&P22 Compact- that gun is so light I forget it’s there….,
 
American made DA revolvers are remarkably reliable, but some malfunctions can occur. We already covered debris under the extractor and how to avoid it. There are a couple of other malfunctions that while rare, can be a serious issue.

The first is a casing trapped under the extractor. This malfunction is almost never seen in a snubnose revolver due to the short ejector rod. On guns with full length ejector rods, it is rare but can occur due to poor reloading technique, substandard ammunition, a defective ejector or some combination of those issues. The good news is that the malfunction is relatively easy to clear with simple tools, such as a pencil or ballpoint pen. The bad news is it cannot be cleared quickly so your best bet in an emergency is to have another gun.

The fix is to operate the extractor rod and get a finger under the extractor. Pull the extractor a little beyond its normal range of travel. Sometimes the casing will just fall out if given a little more room by overextending the normal travel of the extractor. Sometimes the offending case will need to be poked out with a tool such as a pencil or pen. In either event, the procedure to clear the malfunction is not a quick "tap-rack-bang" drill like the one applied to a pistol malfunction. It’s a bit slower to execute.

Another serious but rare malfunction is an ejector rod that becomes partially unscrewed. Depending on the design of the gun, this can range from being simply annoying all the way to rendering the gun inoperable. Again, the solution isn’t terribly difficult but if it occurs in a gunfight, you better have another gun or a good escape plan.

Although serious, this type of malfunction is almost 100% preventable with a little attention to maintenance.

But first, let’s cover how to open the cylinder of a DA revolver that the ejector rod has backed out to the point it locks the action shut. If the cylinder will not open when the cylinder release is operated, an ejector rod that has come partially unscrewed is almost certainly the culprit. If the gun has an unshrouded ejector rod, you can usually use your fingers to simple screw the rod back in enough to get the action open. Remember that newer model S&W revolvers have LEFT HAND threads on the ejector rod and early models often have right hand threads. Once you get the rod screwed back in, you can open the action, clear the gun and then address the underlying problem.

If the gun has a shrouded ejector rod, things get a little tougher. If you have a pair of tweezers or needle nose pilers, sometimes you can get the rod screwed back in enough to get the action open. Sometimes you must pin the ejector rod with your finger so that it doesn’t turn while you rotate the cylinder to get the ejector rod screwed back into the extractor. This will require that you pull the hammer back slightly and rotate the cylinder incrementally until you can get the rod screwed back in. Remember the LEFT HAND threads of some models and work accordingly. If the gun is loaded (and it often is when this malfunction is discovered) this operation can be potentially dangerous – so don’t be an idiot.

How to avoid the issue in the first place:
This issue rarely appears in guns assembled at the factory and never disturbed after that. If you purchased the gun new and the ejector rod has never been loosened, occasionally checking the ejector rod while cleaning the gun to ensure it is snug will likely be all you need to do.

If you acquired the gun used and don’t know its history OR you just want to be really sure the ejector rod is secure, it may require a little more work. This involves some tools and the possession of some mechanical aptitude, if this is beyond your comfort level or abilities – I suggest you seek the services of an armorer or gunsmith.

I will not go into the techniques for disassembling the ejector rod and extractor for various models. I will say that there are two schools of thought. 1. Disassemble the components, degrease and dry the threads, reassemble everything and tighten the rod to the appropriate torque. 2. Do all the same but add a tiny bit of blue Loctite to the threads before reassembly.
 
"Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson" by Supica and Nahas gives a breakdown of the changes made to their pistols and revolvers. Including when the change to left hand threads was made.
Yep, and that's useful information when you need to deal with an ejector rod.
Of course, if you can't get the action open to see which dash number the gun is, and it might have been made during one of those transition years.....It might be helpful if you already knew what it was :D

If it is a five screw or 4 screw model, you're pretty safe in guessing, but other models might be a bit more difficult to ID with the crane closed over those markings.
 
If you've been following this thread, you may have noticed that most of the potential malfunctions associated with DA revolvers involved problems related to reloading the revolver. (Debris under the extractor, a casing under the extractor, etc.) and that reflects reality.

A DA revolver is incredibly reliable when we’re talking about firing the capacity of the cylinder.

The mantra about the little snubnose revolvers providing “Five Shots for Sure” is a valid reality. The odds of being able to fire all the rounds in a cylinder without a failure are extremely good and the limiting factor there is the quality of the ammunition.

In fact, because the energy needed to operate the action of a revovler comes from the user and not the ammunition, even a complete failure of a cartridge to fire (a dud round) has no effect on the gun’s ability to function. You simply pull the trigger again.

However, there are some types of ammunition failures that are serious problems. The first is a bullet that is pulled from the casing by recoil and protrudes beyond the front face of the cylinder. This “prairie dog” type of failure where the bullet pokes out of its hole, will tie up the action. While this stoppage can be cleared easily with some time and maybe simple tools, it cannot be expediently cleared in the field, under stress. The key to survival here is to avoid this type of malfunction altogether.

Every time a revolver is fired, the live rounds in the cylinder that have not been fired are subjected to recoil. So, in a 6-shot cylinder, if you fire all the cartridges in sequence, by the time you get to the last round in the cylinder, that cartridge has been subjected to the recoil of the 5 prior shots. The inertia of the relatively heavy bullet resists movement while the casing is violently thrust rearward with each shot. The bullet is not being pulled forward, the casing is being pulled rearward. The details involving the direction of force aren’t terribly important here; the end result is the same – the force is working to separate the casing from the bullet. If the crimp is not sufficient to resist this force, the bullet will incrementally advance forward relative to the casing until it protrudes from the front face of the cylinder.

Now, this is a complete non-issue as long as the bullet is securely held in the casing until that cartridge is fired. That’s the job of the crimp of the case mouth. Generally speaking, this is a non-issue when dealing with good quality casings without defects (like a case mouth split) and proper crimps (either new factory loaded cartridges or correctly crimped reloads). Good quality cartridges will ride just fine in the cylinder until it’s their turn to go bang.

Highly unusual circumstances can cause problems even when good quality cartridges, with good crimps, are used. If the ammunition in a cylinder is only partially expended and the remaining live cartridges are constantly recycled through the cylinder without being fired, eventually the repeated recoil will pull the bullets from those unfired rounds. The scenario to set up that failure is rather bizarre and would likely require the user to intentionally and repeatedly recycle an unfired round through a cylinder but there is a factor that shifts the odds. That factor is an ultra-lightweight revolver. The extreme low mass of some guns such as the S&W Airlite models with their lightweight Scandium alloy frames and Titanium cylinders, make them effective inertia bullet pullers. That last cartridge in that 5 round cylinder will likely tolerate the ride of 4 recoil impulses just fine, but you may not want to subject it to that inertia bullet puller 8 or more times.
 
If you've been following this thread, you may have noticed that most of the potential malfunctions associated with DA revolvers involved problems related to reloading the revolver. (Debris under the extractor, a casing under the extractor, etc.) and that reflects reality.

A DA revolver is incredibly reliable when we’re talking about firing the capacity of the cylinder.

The mantra about the little snubnose revolvers providing “Five Shots for Sure” is a valid reality. The odds of being able to fire all the rounds in a cylinder without a failure are extremely good and the limiting factor there is the quality of the ammunition.

In fact, because the energy needed to operate the action of a revovler comes from the user and not the ammunition, even a complete failure of a cartridge to fire (a dud round) has no effect on the gun’s ability to function. You simply pull the trigger again.

However, there are some types of ammunition failures that are serious problems. The first is a bullet that is pulled from the casing by recoil and protrudes beyond the front face of the cylinder. This “prairie dog” type of failure where the bullet pokes out of its hole, will tie up the action. While this stoppage can be cleared easily with some time and maybe simple tools, it cannot be expediently cleared in the field, under stress. The key to survival here is to avoid this type of malfunction altogether.

Every time a revolver is fired, the live rounds in the cylinder that have not been fired are subjected to recoil. So, in a 6-shot cylinder, if you fire all the cartridges in sequence, by the time you get to the last round in the cylinder, that cartridge has been subjected to the recoil of the 5 prior shots. The inertia of the relatively heavy bullet resists movement while the casing is violently thrust rearward with each shot. The bullet is not being pulled forward, the casing is being pulled rearward. The details involving the direction of force aren’t terribly important here; the end result is the same – the force is working to separate the casing from the bullet. If the crimp is not sufficient to resist this force, the bullet will incrementally advance forward relative to the casing until it protrudes from the front face of the cylinder.

Now, this is a complete non-issue as long as the bullet is securely held in the casing until that cartridge is fired. That’s the job of the crimp of the case mouth. Generally speaking, this is a non-issue when dealing with good quality casings without defects (like a case mouth split) and proper crimps (either new factory loaded cartridges or correctly crimped reloads). Good quality cartridges will ride just fine in the cylinder until it’s their turn to go bang.

Highly unusual circumstances can cause problems even when good quality cartridges, with good crimps, are used. If the ammunition in a cylinder is only partially expended and the remaining live cartridges are constantly recycled through the cylinder without being fired, eventually the repeated recoil will pull the bullets from those unfired rounds. The scenario to set up that failure is rather bizarre and would likely require the user to intentionally and repeatedly recycle an unfired round through a cylinder but there is a factor that shifts the odds. That factor is an ultra-lightweight revolver. The extreme low mass of some guns such as the S&W Airlite models with their lightweight Scandium alloy frames and Titanium cylinders, make them effective inertia bullet pullers. That last cartridge in that 5 round cylinder will likely tolerate the ride of 4 recoil impulses just fine, but you may not want to subject it to that inertia bullet puller 8 or more times.
^^ THIS IS ... ^^ ... an excellent reminder that the laws of physics apply to all types of firearms in all sorts of ways. It's part of what makes them so bloomin' fascinating. Ya gotta think through pretty much everything or "unexpected" things will happen, sooner or later.

Not too long ago I performed a test of some dummy 223 rounds with uncrimped bullets. I was concerned about the possibility of the bullets jamming DEEPER into the case. What I found was the opposite. After three cycles through the magazine into the chamber (dropping the bolt from locked position), every single dummy round exhibited the bullet moving FORWARD, OUT of the case. Turns out that the AR is a ready made inertial bullet puller.

Ya gotta use your head for something more than a spacer to keep your ears from touching one another...
 
We addressed the ammunition failure of a bullet being pulled out of the casing, or more accurately the casing being pulled away from the bullet. And we touched on a complete failure to fire (a dud round). But there’s another ammunition failure that can be problematic, and that’s a squib load. Squib loads are not unique to revolvers and can occur in any firearm. But revolvers do pose a different set of circumstances when it comes to squibs. As previously pointed out, the action on a revolver is powered by the user not the ammunition, so a squib round doesn’t always disable the action.

As we all know, a squib is a cartridge in which the primer functions but there’s no powder in the casing, insufficient powder in the casing or the powder doesn’t burn completely. In that situation there’s enough pressure to start the bullet out of the casing but not enough pressure for the bullet to exit the muzzle

Assuming the bullet from a squib makes it completely out of the cylinder before it lodges in the barrel, a revolver is perhaps more prone to getting the user into trouble than a squib in a pistol. As long as the bullet from a squib doesn’t lock the cylinder up (by bridging the gap between the cylinder and forcing cone) a revolver will continue to function with that barrel obstruction in place – often regrettably.

99.99% of the time, when a squib is encountered the procedure is the same – STOP shooting until the barrel obstruction is removed. But there is one exception to that rule and that is when the shooter is facing grave imminent danger. If not shooting is more likely fatal than shooting, then you just put another round down the obstructed barrel and hope for the best. At that point you’re out of options.

Firing another bullet behind one lodged in the barrel is going to result in one of three outcomes. The barrel will burst; the second bullet will lodge behind the first one or both bullets will exit the muzzle with permanent damage to the barrel (the barrel will be “ringed”). In a grave emergency you’re hoping for that last outcome.

It’s sort of like parachuting and the main chute fouls. Normally the procedure is to release or cut away the main chute and then deploy the reserve. But if you’re really close to the ground and there’s no time to release the bad chute, you deploy the reserve and hope for the best. When your only options are really bad and even worse – really bad becomes the choice.
 
This was very common with the 32/20 in revolvers when they loaded jacketed bullets at 10,000 CUP. Pure lead core would expand and fit tightly in the barrel. Barrel to cylinder gap would bleed off pressure and stick the bullet about 4 to 5 inches up the barrel. When doing chrony testing for articles, I checked the barrel EVERY shot to insure there wasn't a bullet still in the barrel.
 
Yep, a squib load can be the start of a very bad day.

Interestingly, this is one area where a snubnose revolver and lead bullets has a slight advantage. Even a very weak charge is likely to be enough to get the bullet to the end of that short barrel.
 
Interestingly, this is one area where a snubnose revolver and lead bullets has a slight advantage. Even a very weak charge is likely to be enough to get the bullet to the end of that short barrel.
Now THAT is a unique point of view! LOL.

I've suffered ONE undetected squib followed by another round in my lifetime, and that was enough. It was in a 1911 and I was shooting cheapskate practice ammo. The followup round cleared the slug from the barrel. Fortunately, the barrel did not split nor "blow up", but it definitely "ringed" the barrel and tied up the slide.
 
Yep, a squib load can be the start of a very bad day.

Interestingly, this is one area where a snubnose revolver and lead bullets has a slight advantage. Even a very weak charge is likely to be enough to get the bullet to the end of that short barrel.
There was an article in a 1960's Handloaders Digest about a guy wanting to use the minimum load from a S&W Chief's Special to shoot in his basement. IIRC, the minimum load was 0.7 grains of Bullseye would clear a 148 grain WC every time in his revolver.
 
If you're around firearms long enough, you’ll have a story or twenty… about a squib load. Sometimes with good outcomes because the shooter caught it in time, and sometimes not so great outcomes. Sometimes you will be the player involved and sometimes you are just near the player involved.

Some folks are quick to condemn reloads but I’ve seen bad factory ammo too. But sometimes the blame rests solidly on the person reloading the ammo.

One of the more comical events I witnessed wasn’t technically a squib, because the payload cleared the muzzle, sort of, but it was funny.

A good friend had his father’s Ruger 20 ga. Red Label and he had loaded some shells. He is an amazing marksman, but he can be a bit inattentive at times. We were shooting clay targets and I launched a target. He tracks the bird and a mild “phoomfft” sound occurred. You could see the wadding and shot just kind of lazily arcing through the air like a slow softball pitch.

Open the gun, look down the bore – all clear. OK, let’s try that again. Same comical result. Somehow, he managed to get the powder charge way low. The shell would fire and the wadding and shot would just sort of come out, but just barely. Sometimes the wadding would stick in the barrel, and he had pour the shot out and then a dowel was used to knock the wad out. After a few of those, I was laughing to the point I couldn’t operate the trap.
 
In the hierarchy of snubnose revolvers by size,

The 2” S&W J-frames (which are actually 1 7/8” barrels) are about the smallest of the 38 Special DA snubnose revolvers. The Ruger LCR is probably its closest counterpart. The five shot S&W J-frames can be had in a bewildering array of variations including blued, stainless, aluminum alloy and even scandium alloy frames with titanium cylinders and stainless-steel inner barrels. The weight is dependent on the material the gun is made of.

Next up are the various older models of the Colt Detective Special/Cobra/Agent with 2” barrels. Those are about the smallest of the class with 6 chamber cylinders. And of course, the original Cobra and Agent models had aluminum alloy frames and are therefore lightweight models. It’s interesting to note the blued steel Detective Special and a stainless-steel S&W 640 are only 28 grams or roughly 1 oz apart in unloaded weight.

Next by size are the Ruger SP101 models with the 2.25” barrel. And despite dropping back down to a 5-round cylinder, the SP101 is noticeably heavier than a 2” Detective Special. (by almost 3 oz.). The SP101 is seriously strong but the penalty for that is weight; and that weight is significant. The grips will often be the controlling factor in determining which gun (SP101 or Colt Detective Special) is longer overall.

And then we get into the 2” K-frames. All the fixed sight 2” K-frames are sort of large for front pocket carry. They are a bit more suitable in cargo pockets and coat pockets. In the blued steel (model 10) and Stainless Steel (model 64) we are getting into some serious weight for the class. The lightweight model 12 with a round butt and 2” barrel, is considerably easier to carry due to the lightweight alloy frame, but it’s still as bulky as its 2” steel frame counterparts.

One of the best shooting snubnose revolvers I ever had was a customized 2”, round butt S&W model 64. As much as I loved it, it was just too big and heavy for the role it needed to fill.

If you step up to an adjustable sight, magnum, K-frame, (like a model 19 or 66) you’re going to get a 2.5” barrel; and a fairly sharp rear sight profile.

In my world – all snubnose DA revolvers carried in a pocket need to have internal hammers or bobbed hammers with no hammer spur. I’m NEVER going to shoot that thing in single action, and the spur is nothing but trouble. That’s a personal rule and not a royal decree, but I will not have a hammer spur on a snubnose DA revolver carried in a pocket.
Didn't colt make one a touch smaller than a j frame, the undercover?
 
JBinMN, I thought you unsubscribed, and yet, here you still are….
Yeah. I think You are correct. See post #68.

My mistake. I fixed the "Alerts" deal.

More for my benefit than yours. TY for the reminder though.

Have a nice day.
 
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