Sharing Revolver Skills

I've had 2 squibs in my life, both causing loss. 1 Taurus 66, fram, barrel and I was able to save the internals.
Glock 22, barrel and slide were a loss but the frame is still running with new parts on top.
I've learned though. If it doesn't feel/sound right, unload and check.
It makes for an interesting day when you're standing there holding a handful of what the heck?
 
1lnbrdg said:
I've had 2 squibs in my life, both causing loss. 1 Taurus 66, fram, barrel and I was able to save the internals.
Glock 22, barrel and slide were a loss but the frame is still running with new parts on top.
I've learned though. If it doesn't feel/sound right, unload and check.
It makes for an interesting day when you're standing there holding a handful of what the heck?
Click to expand...
I cannot quite hit the like button on that. That hurts. Certainly true.

I had one last year in a revolver, not sure which one, a .357 with a target load. I knew something right off but it was bridging the forcing cone and cylinder so it was self protecting. Primer did not light the charge. Iirc I used a pencil to push it back in the throat. Took that round apart and the powder looked fine. No idea why it didn’t light, not enough primer compound in the primer?

I had one like that the year before that I heard the primer pffft and there was some smoke but it didn’t budge out of the crimp. My buddy called in to question if I had charged the case thinking I screwed up. I got home, dismantled that cartridge and the powder looked fine. I am pretty methodical and I look for powder in a case before turning the shell plate. I can screw up but have fairly good methods to prevent that one.

I did a no charge once from a loading block mistake with a series of 77 grain .223 ammo test batches. I primed more cases than the test needed and kept them all in the block. Apparently I grabbed an uncharged case instead of a charged case and seated a bullet. I thought I heard the primer go and no recoil. I ejected a loaded looking round. When I got home the boat tail was heavily sooted and no powder must have been in there. All charges were weighed so it certainly wasn’t a light throw, it was just missed.

I changed my methodology after that. Charge and immediately seat a bullet after. No loading blocks of charged cases for me. It’s charge one and seat one.

I have had other duds,.. Greek surplus .30-06. I heard nothing but later my forensic examination showed the primer fired and the powder was a wet looking clump, a sticky mess. A light off that fizzled out I guessed.
 
Last edited:
When the topic comes up in discussions, people often focus on errors during reloading. That’s certainly a potential issue but attention to the task at hand is generally all that is needed to safeguard against those errors. Avoiding distractions and paying attention to what you are doing will result in cartridges that are safe and functional.

But when it comes to producing squibs, factory loaded ammunition isn’t immune to the problem. I’ve seen squib cartridges produced by reputable manufacturers.

One night an officer brought a pistol to me with a bullet lodged just forward of the chamber. He had attempted to shoot an injured deer that had been struck by a motorist. The factory loaded round, a Winchester JHP, had a live primer but apparently no powder in the case. Fortunately, the failure didn’t occur during a grave confrontation, and a second round wasn’t fired into that barrel obstruction. I cleared the stuck bullet from the barrel and advised him to swap out his remaining cartridges.

Millions upon millions of new commercial cartridges are produced annually and squibs are exceedingly rare, but not impossible.
 
1lnbrdg said:
I've had 2 squibs in my life, both causing loss. 1 Taurus 66, fram, barrel and I was able to save the internals.
Glock 22, barrel and slide were a loss but the frame is still running with new parts on top.
I've learned though. If it doesn't feel/sound right, unload and check.
It makes for an interesting day when you're standing there holding a handful of what the heck?
Click to expand...
I also can't quite hit "LIKE" on this one. I wish that this site gave a few more "reaction options". There's usually at least one that'll work.

Squibs can (and do) occur with handloads and factory ammo alike. In fact, I worry far more about it occurring with the low-cost factory range ammo than with my own handloads. I've had a failure to fire with my own handloads, but never a squib. On the other hand, the one "squib-cident" I've had (outlined above) was with cheap factory ammo.

I most often find myself going to the range alone these days. I'd prefer to have a shooting buddy so that we can swap out doing "overwatch" while the other is shooting. I believe that an observer is more likely to catch a squib than the shooter in some (many? most?) circumstances.
 
Petrol & Powder said:
When the topic comes up in discussions, people often focus on errors during reloading. That’s certainly a potential issue but attention to the task at hand is generally all that is needed to safeguard against those errors. Avoiding distractions and paying attention to what you are doing will result in cartridges that are safe and functional.

But when it comes to producing squibs, factory loaded ammunition isn’t immune to the problem. I’ve seen squib cartridges produced by reputable manufacturers.

One night an officer brought a pistol to me with a bullet lodged just forward of the chamber. He had attempted to shoot an injured deer that had been struck by a motorist. The factory loaded round, a Winchester JHP, had a live primer but apparently no powder in the case. Fortunately, the failure didn’t occur during a grave confrontation, and a second round wasn’t fired into that barrel obstruction. I cleared the stuck bullet from the barrel and advised him to swap out his remaining cartridges.

Millions upon millions of new commercial cartridges are produced annually and squibs are exceedingly rare, but not impossible.
Click to expand...
I retired in 2021 and for the majority of my career bad ammo was a very rare occurrence. The last portion though the bad rounds encountered skyrocketed. Mostly Remington and Winchester ammo problems. I don’t recall any issues with the Speer or Federal duty ammo. Maybe one or two dud FMJ training rounds from Am. Eagle or Speer.

Winchester and Remington 5.56 FMJs could be garbage though, missing primers, inverted primers were seen multiple times in Winchester. Remington seemed to be using their QC rejected brass, incomplete brass in the necks, cold seams in the neck, folded over case mouths that couldn’t possible chamber. Sad to say I had to give a speech about inspecting every round for defects before loading it in a magazine. This was prompted by one of those folded over necks that an officer was enthusiastically hammering on the forward assist to no avail before he was stopped by cadre. That also gave me a moment to teach mortaring a round out of an AR.

No idea if the agency QM was buying seconds or if they were just pumping out trash but for me it really moved the idea of factory defects from the one in a million chance to watch your butt as they’re out there and not all that uncommon.

I still use loading blocks but not for holding charged cases. Very handy loading .44-40 on the single stage as I seat and crimp separately.
 
Last edited:
1lnbrdg said:
Local agency had multiple MP5'S rebuilt due to Winchester 9MM Squibs. During the 90's. No Idea on their quality now.
Click to expand...
That'd be some very EXPENSIVE low-cost ammo indeed.

Winchester white box 9mm ammo hasn't gotten any better in my opinion. I still buy and shoot a lot of it, but one needs to pay attention when using it. Inspection before use pays off too, since some of the defects are obvious, such as primers seated sideways and crushed, etc. Fortunately, all my "bad rounds" thus far have been simple failures to fire, so no squibs (yet) from Win white box. But it doesn't mean I'm letting my guard down.
 
Moving away from ammunition for a bit, let’s talk about things you shouldn’t do with a revolver.

Anytime I see someone holding a revolver in one hand with the cylinder out and they close the action by flicking their wrist to snap the cylinder back into the frame- I wince a little. Even if I see it on TV or in a movie. You just don’t do that to a revolver.

Even worse, the idiot will spin the cylinder and snap it shut while it’s spinning. AHHHHHH don’t do that!

Or the offender will pull the hammer back slightly and then rapidly roll his hand down one side of the cylinder to spin the cylinder. I just want to slap those people.

And then there are the folks that ignorantly proclaim, “it’s a revolver, you don’t need to clean it”. Really? Where did you learn that little tidbit of misinformation?
 
Last edited:
Petrol & Powder said:
Moving away from ammunition for a bit, let’s talk about things you shouldn’t do with a revolver.

Anytime I see someone holding a revolver in one hand with the cylinder out and they close the action by flicking their wrist to snap the cylinder back into the frame- I wince a little. Even if I see it on TV or in a movie. You just don’t do that to a revolver.

Even worse, the idiot will spin the cylinder and snap it shut while it’s spinning. AHHHHHH don’t do that!

Or the offender will pull the hammer back slightly and then rapidly roll his hand down one side of the cylinder to spin the cylinder. I just want to slap those people.

And then there are the folks that ignorantly proclaim, “it’s a revolver, you don’t need to clean it”. Really? Where did you learn that little tidbit of misinformation?
Click to expand...

I was at a gun show long ago when a young 20ish year old on the next table picked up an old colt single action and spun the cylinder rather aggressively while mugging to his friend. The owner of the colt snatched it out of the kids hand and shook it in the kids face yelling “are you gonna buy this”?!!! After standing dumbfounded for a few moments the kid shook his head no and the owner told him to leave and don’t come back!
 
My favorite trail walking/hiking gun for years was a S&W 651 22mag. I retired it when I bought a Ruger Single-Six in 32. Today my Birdshead 327 is the catz azz for me. I can shoot mouse fluff 32 shorts or my snake loads AND A 135g WFN, @ 1200 fps in the same cyl.

RenderedImage.jpegIMG_3380.jpegIMG_1422.jpeg
 
Petrol & Powder said:
Moving away from ammunition for a bit, let’s talk about things you shouldn’t do with a revolver.

Anytime I see someone holding a revolver in one hand with the cylinder out and they close the action by flicking their wrist to snap the cylinder back into the frame- I wince a little. Even if I see it on TV or in a movie. You just don’t do that to a revolver.

Even worse, the idiot will spin the cylinder and snap it shut while it’s spinning. AHHHHHH don’t do that!

Or the offender will pull the hammer back slightly and then rapidly roll his hand down one side of the cylinder to spin the cylinder. I just want to slap those people.

And then there are the folks that ignorantly proclaim, “it’s a revolver, you don’t need to clean it”. Really? Where did you learn that little tidbit of misinformation?
Click to expand...
I feel your pain & as for pulling the hammer slightly & spinning the cylinder, I've watched Jerry Miculek do this many times, right or wrong. Just saying. He does it in the opening seconds of this video.
 
Last edited:
Creeker said:
I feel your pain & as for pulling the hammer slightly & spinning the cylinder, I've watched Jerry Miculek do this many times, right or wrong. Just saying. He does it in the opening seconds of this video.
Click to expand...

Jerry is doing it to be sure theres no resistance in the cylinder function, Ive done it many times, slower than jerry does, the difference is why and how, as in not letting the cylinder locking bolt slam up into the bolt notch while its spinning. The primary offender besides dirty 22s, is 45 acp rounds, the chambers on many have a burr or ridge that hinders complete seating of rounds, though on some guns shooting cast it can get gummy and sticky to fully seat or eject after enough rounds are fired. This varies in different guns. In a ruger 45 with acp cylinder I had, it would do it clean with lead bullet acp reloads, all of which functioned perfectly in auto pistols. After a cylinder or two, it became more of an issue, and a few more rounds fired, can bind to the point that the gun isnt going to keep shooting. Forcing the cylinder around a couple times manually, NOT forcing it by cocking the hammer or trigger action in a DA, but turning the cylinder by hand, pushes the shells down enough to work, but it gets progressively harder to do.

A friend had this problem in an S&W ACP revolver, one of the stainless guns probably from the 90s, others in various makes and models. Some remedy this with throat reamers, which is good, though expensive to buy a reamer. Alternately, Ed Harris described using a 30-06 case drilled and tapped for a bolt in the back to spin it in a drill and using lapping compound to lap out the ridge at the front of the acp chamber. I tried it with the Lee case trimmer pilot holder with the drill nub on the bottom for a Uberti acp cylinder. It worked. It was somewhat surprising how sharp and distinct the ridge or burr at the chamber was when first putting the case in the chamber and spinning it. It cut a pretty significant groove in the case. The friend successfully fixed his S&W by the drill and tap method and a 270 case.

22s seem to vary considerably in how many rounds they can run before needing cleaning. The family k-22 will generally go around 1000 rds or so before it starts getting gummy to seat and eject. I used to shoot a lot of the old winchester wildcat rounds, cheapest available at the time (1980s), plain lead bullet, heavily waxed, and shot fairly well. Other people say they can get a few cylinders full before they start getting gummy, or a few hundred rounds. Its enough of a problem that theres a chamber reamer loaner on one of the forums to fix it. Im not sure I buy the idea that the chambers have to be crazy tight to shoot well. the family gun shoots well despite a fairly substantial number of rds through it, and no particular care in choosing loads.
 
Well said Malamute. My 45ACP Ruger gets tight from loads not fully seating. Like you I spin the cylinder for free movement before cocking. Mine has about 7000 loads through that cylinder & things haven't changed.
 
It's one thing to pull the hammer back slightly and rotate the cylinder through one revolution to make sure the cylinder (with carridges) will rotate through a complete revolution. It is something entirely different to pull the hammer back, put the palm of your hand on the cylinder and rip your hand down along the cylinder in an effort to see just how fast you can accelerate that cylinder.

This was the behavior k-diddy wrote about back in post #92 and that is the behavior I was referring to in general.

When the cylinder is spun while closed in frame the hand will skip over the ratchet as it's designed to, but what's the purpose of spinning a cylinder that aggressively? Other than just showing off at the expense of the gun?

Creeker's point is well taken, there are times that checking the rotation of a cylinder is useful. I don't think it needs to be done at Mach .7 and it is really bad if you let the bolt suddenly stop that speedy rotation.

Malamute also brings up valid points as well. The problem you're looking for is cartridges that cannot fully seat in the chamber. Rotating that cylinder will either push the cartridges fully into the chambers (if there's not too much debris) or at least identify that the gun needs to be cleaned before proceeding.
 
Last edited:
Im shooting a lot of .38 Spec. Many loadings on the brass and I'll get and occasional split brass, sometimes giving me debris that gets under the ejector star. Doesn't take much, sometimes not noticable visibly but it's enough to cause dragging. A quick blast of brake cleaner with the extractor extended and all's good.
 
I ran into this issue the other day - an improperly fitted side plate screw on a S&W revolver.

You can own a DA revolver for many, many years and never have the need to disassemble it. In fact, if you lack the proper tools and knowledge- you shouldn’t take it apart.

But if you do remove the side plate from a S&W revolver (using the correct screwdriver and technique) it’s important to keep the screws matched to their respective position in that plate.

The screws are not interchangeable and depending on the year of production and which dash series you are dealing with, the screws may even be more unique that first meets the eye.

Starting with the forward screw above the trigger on the side plate of a three-screw S&W model. This screw retains the yoke and on older models, that screw is individually fitted to each gun. The tip is filed to achieve just the right amount of engagement with the yoke when the screw is fully tightened and the head bottomed out in the side plate. S&W later changed the style of this screw to include a little spring-loaded plunger in the tip, which makes installing the screw a no-brainer (known as the “new yoke retention system”, which is fancy talk for “screw with plunger”). With either type – that screw must remain in that position on the side plate.

Then there is the screw at the back of the side plate, the one normally covered by the grip. On older model S&W revolvers, this screw will have a flat head that fits flush with the side plate when fully tightened. It differs from the lower side plate screw that has a slightly domed head. On current production S&W revolvers, these two screws are identical, and both have domed heads, but the vast majority of older S&W revolvers will have distinctly unique screws in each position on the side plate. I will not get into the 4 and 5 screw models but suffice to say, they are unique as well.

Getting back to the gun I was working on the other day. The forward side plate screw was not bottomed out and was loose. When I tightened it, the yoke would bind. It was the old-style screw without the spring-loaded end. My first instinct was that someone had inadvertently swapped it for the screw at bottom of the side plate (a common error as both screws have similar domed heads). Nope, that one wasn’t correct either. After careful examination to make sure I wasn’t about to do something stupid (never out of the realm of possibility for me) I determined that screw had simply never been properly fitted. A few minutes with a file and a stone, some trial fitting and the issue was cured. It’s possible someone had previously replaced the screw and simply never fitted it properly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.