Shout Out to a Generous Forum-Member

J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
@CWLONGSHOT got me off on the right foot when I hit him up with a specific question before I went off and reinvented the whole wheel again.

I only needed to do this for one specific application, because I have no complaints with tumble-lubing for everything else and get excellent results from that process.

I don't mean to drag everyone into repeating everything that's been said for every neophyte PC'er to date, so don't feel obliged to run to my rescue. NOT that I don't appreciate what I have learned from people here - I just don't want to make them repeat the "A, B, Cs" one more time. I don't even know enough about this to ask intelligent questions anyway.

I did some "research" and had ONE specific question and CW saved me a bunch of grief right out of the gate. I ran forty assorted, unlubed bullets (which was hard enough to find without casting some) and they came out even but thin. The next "batch" was about 750 35 cal bullets I cast up just for this application and they turned out great.

Anyway, this isn't about PC'ing bullets - it's really about a forum-member who took the time to interact personally to help a fellow-caster out.

The results are a testament to his ability to mentor:

EDIT: OK, I messed up my photos and cropped them somehow when resizing, so I'll try to fix that.
 

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Ian

Ian

Notorious member
CW's come a long way, we even convinced him to start standing his bullets up to bake so he doesn't get those "holidays".

Unless the gas check shank is too small, you can put your checks on before coating. It works either way just fine.
 
J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
Thanks, Ian.

It's funny - I didn't admit that I purposefully stood each and every one of those up, even the 22s in the test batch, which is tedious and time-consuming - and my hands shake a bit to boot. What a pain in the ....."BOOT." Defintely not as "easy" as my tumble-lube process, but I'm only looking to use these with a suppressor on a single-shot 357 Mag carbine. Everything else will still be TL'd.

Still, as unimportant as it may be to some, it was drilled into my head that one would be judged severely by those most qualified to judge, on the aesthetic of your handloads. I was taught that it was a hallmark professionalism and attention to detail, and that DETAIL is what ity's all about, so I have a deeply embedded preoccupation (compulsion) with "pretty bullets."

Lube dents on shoulders were shameful, but primer pits in the bolt-face - an unforgivable sin. I can't say I'm doing it "right" yet but they sure do look nice. Besides, I'm using a commercial pizza oven, like you would find in a "roach-coach," so I can't get baskets in it anyway. There's a SLOT I have to slide the tray into and there's JUST enough room to stand bullets up and keep them away from the elements enough not to ruin them. No convection feature, but I can plug the TC into my PID controller and gain an advantage there. I worked in industrial process heating for several years, I had a slight edge on that end of it - still have components lying about.
 
J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
Will do, Ian.

This has been a long time coming and your experiences posted in the past had no small part in making my choices.

Safe to assume that to be a 45 Colt? I know you've done Form-1 cans - is that one of them?
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
That's my first Form 1 can, made from a gen-you-ine Maglight and formed freeze plugs. You don't have to spend a lot of money to make something that works well.
 
CWLONGSHOT

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Good stuff Jeff!! Looks great!

Ian loved those H&R's back in the day. I had a "few" ;) Sold off most, but kept a "few" that wont go anywhere!!

CW
 
S

STIHL

Well-Known Member
I would say you picked it up just fine. Good looking bullets. I stand a lot of mine up, just because, but I have found you don’t have too. The baskets work really well for me too coating large quantities.

Oh and I thought this was what these forums were for to help each other out!!! If you ain’t here to help or learn or have good conversation, you’re n the wrong place.
 
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J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
STIHL said:
I would say you picked it up just fine. Good looking bullets. I stand a lot of mine up, just because, but I have found you don’t have too. The baskets work really well for me too coating large quantities.

Oh and I thought this was what these forums were for to help each other out!!! If you ain’t here to help or learn or have good conversation, you’re n the wrong place.
Click to expand...

Well, Sir, I just may have to research this "basket" idea after all.

Anyone remember the old Cold War theme of the "domino effect?"

Ever wonder JUST how psychologically self-destructive you could possibly be and still "get back?"

Well, I swirled, shook and stood on their bases over 500 22 caliber bullets yesterday (on parchment again after my silicone mat folly) and NEVER MIND THE FUMES! Once I got a hundred set up, I'd bump the tray and - DOMINOES. Start over. I couldn't stop. I started and couldn't stop. I'd made up my mind that I was going make perfectly pretty bullets, and I just couldn't stop.

Talk about nerve-wracking! I knew the whole time how idiotic this pursuit was but I couldn't stop!

o_O

They did come out pretty though, but I dreamed about setting up bullets and bullets falling over - over and over again.
 
CWLONGSHOT

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
When using the basket... You will likely find some powders are better then others. For instance Eastwood powders are a but thicker a d do not basket cure for me. Some Powder Coat store work as do some Powder By the Pound powders but NOT ALL.

So dont try one and say NOPE this dont WORK...
 
J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
CWLONGSHOT said:
.....So dont try one and say NOPE this dont WORK...
Click to expand...

When these little suckers flop on their side on the parchment, it leaves a bare streak the length of the bullet's bearing surface. No idea if that has any material affect on performance, but I just can't bear to look at it. This implies no judgement upon any who see my obsessive peculiarities as being idiotic.

What I'm saying "nope, don't work" is the tedium of standing them all up, even with dead-flat bases. But, once I started....:headbang:

I'll be shooting these and the others before coating any more, because I have no idea if any of them will do what need them to do yet. While my 357 Mag barrel is off getting threaded, I want to try these 22s in my 222 and the 35s in my 357 Max barrel - which is something like three years old and, as yet, unfired.

I have shot the 357 Mag to 1800 fps, in carbines with a 180 grain bullets without leading and WITH good accuracy, so there's no point in having a Max barrel if I don't exceed that (for flatter trajectory). Using TL'd 180 grain bullets made of air-cooled, clip-on wheel weights and aluminum 'checks, the current 357 Mag carbine seems "comfortable at 1600 to 1700 fps. It will be a dedicated sub-sonic, suppressed arm, which is what the PC is for, but the 'Max will be for deer - ostensibly. Since I was set on experimenting with PC for the "can," I went ahead and coated the one of four GC bullets that falls out of my 4C at every cycle too, just to see what they will do.

Realistically, I may never PC another 22 bullet, but if these exceed accuracy and velocity performance of my TL'd 22 bullets, maybe. My TL film is DRY and THIN, but it wears off the noses over time when carried, in a pocket, and I assume, leaving lead residue in my clothing(?) and it would be nice to have more "durable" finish on the bullets regardless of their velocity. Accuracy matters, period. It will have to meet or exceed current results or the other benefits won't be worth it to me.

NOT that I am that GOOD, rather that I really need every little advantage I can get in that department. Accuracy on paper probably does more for my confidence, which induces better shooting on my part, than the intrinsic value thereof.

I'm keeping notes, @CWLONGSHOT . Thanks for the tip on powder and baskets. I don't think I've ever noticed ugly mesh-marks on your bullets, so I certainly trust your insight.

On the other hand, even for the extra effort, accumulating and setting back finished cast bullets of any ilk is very rewarding and a constructive use of one's time and effort. Sort of like stacking firewood - feels like money in the bank, but even better.;)
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
Figure out how to stop bumping the tray. I set mine up so that bumping is impossible while picking and placing bullets. Sometimes one falls over when I place it but I try to space to prevent domino effect. The only tricky moment is getting the tray from bench to oven without losing the while thing.
 
J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
Ian said:
Figure out how to stop bumping the tray. I set mine up so that bumping is impossible while picking and placing bullets. Sometimes one falls over when I place it but I try to space to prevent domino effect. The only tricky moment is getting the tray from bench to oven without losing the while thing.
Click to expand...


Yeah, that was a big part of my eventual success with the final tray of 22s. I made several changes along the way. There is a fold-up, frying-pan-like handle on the front of the tray. It was sticking out and - guess what. Well, I'm no dummy, so I folded it UP and out of the way. Then, the armpit of my coat drug across it when I reached to set a bullet down and - dominoes. So, I turned the tray sideways, so I wouldn't get into the handle at all. THEN, my needle-nosed pliers started sticking and I'd bump one I'd already managed to set up straight and....

Yes, I was being greedy with time and placed as many as I could fit in one cycle. The time I saved by doing two cycles instead of three was lost standing bullets back up or tossing them back in the Cool-Whip container for another spin, PLUS some, probably. Should have spaced them more.

Going from the bench to the oven,.... half way to the oven, i realized that I had a LOT of weight cantilevered out on that Bakelite handle and a horrid thought occurred... I will definitely need to work up a solution to that hair-raising journey. I have the tray sitting on top of the oven when I load it, so it's as close as it can get.

I loaded the oven cold on the 22s and let the controller auto-tune on its way to 400, then started timing the 20 minutes. I noticed on the 35s I did that the oven plunged 40 degrees when I put the bullets in, so I waited for it to recover before starting the 20 minute cycle. If I were starting from scratch, I'd buy a ramp-soak controller, which is just an additional feature on a regular controller. I used what I had, which was pretty basic. If you wanted to, you could get a ramp-soak controller, start cold, let it ramp up, "soak" for a predetermined period and then shut off (or ramp down) and close a relay to turn on a light or sound a buzzer. This endeavor has me thinking about building a new PID controller - actually one with two controllers or two separate ones. Not sure yet, but when I threw the one together for my lead pot, Id never imagined I'd be using it for other stuff.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
This may sound silly, but practice "dry runs". Dry runs are done in foundries, industry, manufacturing, any time a delicate, dangerous, time-critical process has to be worked out. Imagine bumping over ten pounds of molten aluminum because the handle sticking out behind your elbow bumped a table, or any number of other things. Practice the routine with an empty tray BEFORE your bullets are in place.
 
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