Simple Lube!

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
A PM here is a "discussion" to use the lingo of the software.

JW, I think simple lube is still the same as Fiver first mentioned on CB. It was intended to be easily modified to the desires and needs of the user.

Now if you really want some esoteric lube discussions start a discussion with Ian and ask for some recipes that have worked well in specific applications.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
he might also be confusing the simple lube thread with the lube quest thread.
the quest thread is stickied
[unless you guy's want it unstickied I never did ask y'all about that]


Rick is it Dan or Daniel?
Daniel is his oldest boy and is known as Dan junior too.
but the dad goes by Dan and the son by Daniel for the most part.
and to make it harder to guess they both live in Montana again. :lol:
Dell is where Dan [Bullshop] is....
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I figure it is Dan Sr based on the age given at signup. Also the posts he has made here sure sound like Sr.

And yeah, I think the quest thread is what JW is speaking of, simple lube is just that, simple.
 

35 shooter

Well-Known Member
I have the recipe for Simple lube at home(not there now) and i can post that here tommorrow if
no one has by then. If you want to try a firmish lube, it is a good one. I had no complaints with it for sure.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I wondered about the "simple lube" thread, didn't remember that one going on for 49 pages or whatever. The Quest for Extreme Boolit Lube? That one ended up with me settling on SL-68 and shooting it and its very slight variants for almost two years now with really not being able to improve much without some less refined wax and petrolatum. The only thing that will unseat it is making a lube just as good without any metal salts or solids in it...which is my next venture. I think Fiver refined a lithium/wax/moly that he's been using, and Pete and the rest of us have been impressed with Mike's 6661 in extreme cold weather.
 

35 shooter

Well-Known Member
This is what i have for Simple lube
4oz beeswax by weight solid
4tsp vaseline
2tsp 2 stroke oil...cd-2...or at least no synthetic
2tsp ATF oil....dexron...i used auto zone dex/merc
you can add 1/8 tsp of lanolin if you wish(i didn't)
Melt beeswax, dump everything in and stir(about 15 min.) pour out to cool.
Add a third tsp. of 2 stroke if you want it softer for cold weather.
Can be changed for really cold weather by adding 1/2 tsp. of neets foot oil/mink oil
For exteme high heat temps. add 3% carnuba.

I haven't tried any of the additives for cold or hot and made the original recipe without the lanolin, worked just fine for me.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
that's the recipe almost word for word as I have it wrote down in my lube note pad.

I am using the moly complex lube for my rifle stuff.
it's got three waxes, some poly glycol in it, 2 lithium greases, a titch of lanolin and I mean a titch [it was on the fork] and some alox.
plus moly solids that will fall out if you melt the lube.
and some atf of course.

my other lube is a homogenous mix of OMG a bunch of lube tests thrown together and modified for viscosity.
I have added more and more wax to it over time as it never seems to harden up and stays tacky.
I finally took to just mixing it 2 to 1 with the moly lube and it's finally showing promise in several handgun rounds.
it has 5-6 waxes, 4-5 middle modifiers, about 9 different oils and I wouldn't even guess at how many different stearates are in there.
mixing it with the moly complex lube just adds more stuff.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Sounds like your "Homo lube" is having a case of the the stearates breaking each other's matrices down if it keeps going soft. IIRC Al and Li don't get along very well (de-gel each other). I had that happen with a big batch of microwax/polyurea grease that was just a slimy mess...then I re-cooked it with some Ivory soap and it got crumbly for a bit, then I put in some Li grease and afterward had to store it in a big jar to keep it from slowly creeping off the workbench, every day it got a little less viscous.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
it hasn't gotten softer it just stays soft and blows out of the lube groove when fired.
so I started bumping up the viscosity a bit at a time with more and more wax.

I kept the aluminum stearate E-lube separate and the J-lube is kept on it's own too.
that stuff is still working well.
the E-yellow lube is a spring and fall workhorse as it works just as well at 20 as it does at 75 and I can see those temps at any time during those seasons.
[it's the one that fell apart in Nevada a couple of summers back when the temps hit 100-f]
if I use the rifle within a 3 day window it keeps the first shot within an inch too.
it is an aluminum stearate modified Li stearate grease but the aluminum content over rides the Li content making the Li a lube component again instead of the lock-up component of the grease.

I think the issue is with all the oils, there's gotta be something not allowing something else to lock up in the waxes with everything in there, its just sitting on the surface.

the moly lube fixing it is because it is low on oils and is mainly modified waxes.
remember I had to add some paraffin to adjust the flow characteristics and then some atf to further adjust the oil content and help the barrel condition.
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Thanks Guys for posting & discussing the recipe: Fiver & Ian, yes I did mistake the "quest" thread for the "simple lube " thread on the cb forum. (Going over to re read it)
Based on your experience, can the simple lube be used for pan lubing?
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Would you guys know if Lucas Oil Stabilizer ( comes in a quart bottle ) is Paratack. (I'm not sure if I asked that question way back on the other other forum)
and if it is the same as the STP oil treatment?
 

Ian

Notorious member
Basically yes. May or not be 'Paratac' as that is a product name for a particular industrial version of polybutene, and it comes in more than one viscosity, but any oil product that forms strings (including most automotive and industrial greases and gear lubes) you can bet contains up to a couple percent polybutene. The treat rate is extremely small for the effect it has on grease/oil/lube. In two-cycle engine oil, the put 10-20% polybutene in there to control smoke. The reason two-cycle oil will even pour out of the bottle with that much polybutene in it is the mineral spirits added.
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Ian , Fiver, & Brad...not to be a PITA but can any of you post some of the "anagram" language you guys use here as far as lubes, as well as the old place on CB forums.
Sorry I just guess I'm slow to pick up on it
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
it does pretty much the same thing as STP does but works better as a feathering/softening agent to a Bees-wax based lube.
you want to keep the paratack under control or it will try to make your lube stick together when being flung off at the muzzle [this can hurt group size]
 

Ian

Notorious member
Cohesion vs. adhesion. Polybutene is just one of many tools in the lube shed.

Jim, I assume you mean "acronyms"? It would be easier if you just asked about the ones with which you are unfamiliar, we sorta picked this stuff up ourselves in the past few years from the industrial lube arena, like any science it has it's own jargon and merciful abbreviations/acronyms. Some of the chemicals we use have names nearly 20 letters long.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Ian, I have a name 18 letters long, middle name not included. Good thing I have initials!

We sort of developed a language of our own. It took some time to develop the lingo, it sorta came about because we couldn't find other ways to describe things. At times I think even we aren't exactly sure what we mean!

Here are a few terms.
TNT is a soap and oil lube, mainly made with no wax. It leaves a very dry bore. I had some horrible fouling issues in rifles but it rocks in a handgun.
Adhesion and cohesion, like Ian mentioned. Adhesion is ability to stick to something else, cohesion is ability to stay in a blob, like lube staying in a lube groove.
Things like K2, as Ian mentioned, are a specific two stroke oil. It is a full synthetic. Not all two strokes are created equal, changing the oil can make a huge difference.
When Ian mentions Al or Li he means the stearates of those metals. Ivory soap is a sodium stearate. Each one has unique properties. Some metal salts get along well, some don't.
Ian used a fair bit of Dr Tranny's tranny assembly goo. It was an ingredient in SL62 if I remember correctly. The SL62 formula was altered slightly to create a series of similar lubes. One of them had a somewhat rubbery feels that made me call it "flubber".
Jim, don't feel bad. I'm no wrench jockey like Ian and this entire endeavor made me go into auto part stores more than I ever wanted to. I still don't k ow all that I need to.
There are different oils we used too. I like the Ester oil, like used in AC systems, for mould lube. It is good in bullet lubes too.

Ian can give way more info on oil types and which don't play nice together than I ever could. Maybe he will chime in with more info on the oils. If I tried I would just make my head hurt.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Part of the lingo also came about because we got the attention of some genuine, professional Tribologists (lubrication engineers) and they speak a different language entirely. One of them, Bruce381, was kind enough to send us a whole bunch of samples of lube additives and lab-grade oils and pure stearates and other goodies to mess with as we came up with different philosophies to test. This was especially helpful because much of this stuff isn't commonly available outside of finished compounds, and we needed to test the effects of some things in an isolated and individual way. We got some stuff like yellow-metal-safe, patented sulfurized ester oil (I forget the trademark name) and a fully synthesized ester fat that Lubrizol makes as a cutting fluid additive called Syn-Ester HTO. Bruce had a solution to just about every problem we came up against. Thanks to him I got to try every synthetic oil type known to man besides fluorinated oil, which we all agreed might be dangerous in vapor state. I tried polyalkylene glycol oil (PAG for short, used in all modern R-134a automotive air conditioning systems because it's soluble in the refrigerant and takes heat far better than ac ester oil) and the stuff wanted to fall out of waxes. Bruce sent some special PAG formulated especially to blend with hydrocarbons so I could effectively test a wax/PAG lube which I called Zombie lube due to the neon tracer dye. We were itching to make lithium brick grease and try the inert bentone clay and silica thickeners, so Bruce sent out a variety of spices from his own lubricant lab and even sourced two kinds of lithium stearates (one was simple stearate and one was a complex) for us to try, and he sent a whole bunch of other odds and ends that he thought might be helpful to the learning process like valve packing lubricant (something I wanted to test and did) and printouts of technical product data sheets that the average joe will never have access to. I have about half a dozen pure base synthetic oil samples to work with ranging from polyolester based (POE) to polyalphaolefin (PAO, like Mobil 1 oil and the Amsoil line is based on) to several pure PAG oils. Fiver played around with some PAG-based valve lube that he had, too. Bruce also sent some Paratac to mess with (neat to have the pure form isolated), and I think Brad got some anti-oxidant preservative stuff. We tested all of it. Instead of going and buying grease, we MADE grease from scratch, and could control the NLGI (National Lubricating Grease Institute) numbers by how much stearate we added, basically #6 is a brick grease, #2 is a wheel bearing and chassis grease, and #000 is heavy oil. Having pure oils and various grease thickeners enabled me to test my wax-free theories to the fullest, making grease heavy enough for lube with only clay, silica, and at least five different metal salts and oils, something that is mostly not available at all unless you make it yourself. Bruce writes in abrupt tribologist jargon, so we had to learn the lingo or be lost. I can't attempt a synopsis of over 3K posts in one thread and many thousands more on other threads on other forums and all the emails, letters, and pm's and many, many late nights trolling lube discussion forums, patent applications, and international lube research publications looking for some magic. I'm still scared to go near Nebraska for fear Mrs. Troj will skin me.

Then there's the Three Amigo's own terms like Titch (a little), Bump (boost or increase a certain physical quality), Smearability and Feather (how a lube flows and thins under pressure), Middle Modifier (Vaseline, HTO, and Cetyl Esters are examples of that) and a whole lot of other made-up stuff that needed made up so we could communicate what we were observing over the internet.

In the middle of all that, Fiver came up with Simple Lube. In context, it's easy to understand why he would call it that, isn't it?
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Jim, I assume you mean "acronyms"? It would be easier if you just asked about the ones with which you are unfamiliar, we sorta picked this stuff up ourselves in the past few years from the industrial lube arena, like any science it has it's own jargon and merciful abbreviations/acronyms. Some of the chemicals we use have names nearly 20 letters long.

Ian, Yes Thank You for the correction I have always got those two words switched around. My brain knows it yet the fingers type in the other.
Thanks for explaining many of the ones I was wondering about
I started re-reading the "Quest" and the "Simple Lube" at the other place. I will grab a few others that I can't figure out and post them. Then maybe we can make a "Lube" glossary of sorts.

I just love all of you guys' devotion to the subject! Sorry to re-rack your brains on past research. I'm just fascinated by it all. Thanks
Jim
 
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Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I learned neat things too. Making a grease from Ivory soap and Ester oil on the kitchen stove smokes a bunch but doesn't smell too bad. ATF and soap on the other hand stinks like hell on earth. That got me kicked out of the kitchen and reminded that I owned a hotplate and that we do have a patio out back.
I have a large plastic bin full of my goodies. Well, all except the 10 pounds each of beeswax, microwax, and paraffin. I can make enough lube to lube every bullet my family will shoot for the next couple generations.
This was a bunch of fun but also a bunch of work. At times I made 4 different lubes in a week.m just finding time to try them was difficult. Sometimes I made stuff, discovered they probably wouldn't work, and never used them.
The Ester oil with the tracer dye does make a neat lube. I'm currently using a neon pea green lube because of it. Sure is snazzy looking on a bullet!