Simple Lube

[fiver]

flow of the lube and the gas volume.

IF you see the relax point you can have a lot of fun manipulating it up and down the barrel by changing powders and lube ingredients.
and you can leave everything alone and change your alloy.
this is when you really start to learn how to put the whole process together.
the relationships start to become quite apparent when you have an indicator and can manipulate where it occurs [or make it go away] at will.

sometimes you can see it and sometimes you can just barely feel a tight grabby spot in the barrel.
but if you know it's there.......oh boy.

for general every day just wanna shoot stuff and don't care about intracies you wanna make it go away.
add a little more Vaseline or a little more of one of the oils, this should modify the flow just enough to get you what you want.
remember you just want the lube to flow until it's flung off at the muzzle, you need a little bit of lube friction.
otherwise you run the risk of being too wet and cause yourself other issues [in the heat for sure] like purge fliers.
you just barely want to see your rifling marks [dirty powder fouling like] on the muzzle not a bright wet star.
the bright wet star is an indication that you are gonna for sure see the bore condition change as it cools off between strings.

 

[Josh]

I could definitely tell with the carnuba red when it needed modified, the 34 gr group blew something fierce and I had heavy antimonial wash. Now to get my 4500 cleaned out and replace the lube with LSL.

 

[Josh]

Of course that could be an alloy or pressure issue...

 

[Ian]

Of course that could be an alloy or pressure issue...

BINGO.

Now you get to go find out which it is: Alloy constitution, alloy temper, peak pressure, slope and shape of the pressure curve, lube characteristics under the particular conditions it was experiencing at the time, ignition particulars (affected by neck tension, jump to rifling, dynamic bullet fit at launch), or rifling/barrel finish characteristics. Change the temperature 30 degrees or clean the barrel and it all changes again. All of these things are inter-related and each thing affects everything else.

 

[Josh]

BINGO.

Now you get to go find out which it is: Alloy constitution, alloy temper, peak pressure, slope and shape of the pressure curve, lube characteristics under the particular conditions it was experiencing at the time, ignition particulars (affected by neck tension, jump to rifling, dynamic bullet fit at launch), or rifling/barrel finish characteristics. Change the temperature 30 degrees or clean the barrel and it all changes again. All of these things are inter-related and each thing affects everything else.

Just when I think I got this crap down pat... Thanks Ian... lol

 

[Ian]

Glad to be of service.

 

[fiver]

jeez...
I been confusing him for a couple of years and you come throw a monkey wrench in the works and confuse him further.

BTW the lube I was using when I learned about the relax point was carnuba red in my 44 mag lever gun.

 

[Brad]

Carnauba Red is a good lube but it has its issues. It is prone to leaving residue in the bore.
So fiver, did the Vaseline remove the smear entirely?

 

[fiver]

the red got replaced after some mucking about with it.
I started mixing carnuba red 1 part to 3 parts 50-50 and adding lanolin to the mix.
that fixed the issue right quick [except for the first shot flyer in the smaller bore rifles]

man I shot a lot of that lube [and 24 pounds of 4895] doing some of Larry's non linear RPM junk testing.
but it started me down the path of learning how to recognize what different boolits were capable of at higher velocity's and I started figuring out exact throat fitment.
so in a way I gotta thank Larry for teaching me how to shoot high velocity cast in fast twist rifles.

 

[JWFilips]

First Time I heard Larry's name mentioned here! Except for all the "RPM" talk! Not a good name to mention?

 

[Brad]

no comment

 

[Josh]

jeez...
I been confusing him for a couple of years and you come throw a monkey wrench in the works and confuse him further.

BTW the lube I was using when I learned about the relax point was carnuba red in my 44 mag lever gun.

Hey now, I am not too dim but I do feel in awe of the knowledge this collective board holds, it makes me feel like a 15W bulb in a dark room, then someone flicks on the 100W track lighting and my knowledge base just got way smaller. LOL

I am the guy who loves to get the fundamentals down to a solid grasp and then move forward to another small substation of the hobby, once we get talking about the real and true nuts and bolts of how this all works (lube especially with all the huge names, I was HORRIBLE at chem) I don't have the knowledge base to pick it up. For me it will be baby steps.

Now I love being able to get my pour technique to the point I rarely weigh bullets and working up loads that a lot of misguided people think is impossible, but there is so much once you really start making the bullet. So thanks again everyone for all the information, eventually my 15W bulb might become a 60W

 

[fiver]

JW i'll touch on the Larry thing a bit.
he has a theory and will defend it to the bitter end, he has been shown how to ummm overcome his theory.
but steadfastly refused to give up on it.
he finally made a small concession on it being not a wall but merely one small obstacle to overcome.

he stepped in on the XCB project and pretty much threw the whole thing out the window.
instead of it being a step forward in the progression of high velocity cast boolit shooting he made it into a simple monkey see monkey do project and stopped the actual learning process....
my XCB rifle has had 18 rounds down the barrel, all of them jacketed.

 

[fiver]

Josh.
if you notice I mostly don't give a direct do this answer.
I give information [what little I have] and let you choose a direction to pursue.
by following a line of reasoning you understand you can work your way through what you are seeing and will then understand the issue better.
it also let's you see where your next step should be and gives you a knowledge base for the next project or problem that comes up.

 

[JWFilips]

no comment

Understood! I like it here....wouldn't want to change that.

 

[Rick]

JW i'll touch on the Larry thing a bit.
he has a theory and will defend it to the bitter end, he has been shown how to ummm overcome his theory.
but steadfastly refused to give up on it.
he finally made a small concession on it being not a wall but merely one small obstacle to overcome.

he stepped in on the XCB project and pretty much threw the whole thing out the window.
instead of it being a step forward in the progression of high velocity cast boolit shooting he made it into a simple monkey see monkey do project and stopped the actual learning process....
my XCB rifle has had 18 rounds down the barrel, all of them jacketed.

Yep, exactly!

He inserted himself into the High Velocity threads and totally stripped any and all desire I had to pursue that testing. After reading his posts I couldn't even convince myself to turn on the melting pot.

my XCB rifle has had 18 rounds down the barrel, all of them jacketed.

Fer shame . . . Do they still make them things or do you have some left from a past life?

 

[Josh]

Josh.
if you notice I mostly don't give a direct do this answer.
I give information [what little I have] and let you choose a direction to pursue.
by following a line of reasoning you understand you can work your way through what you are seeing and will then understand the issue better.
it also let's you see where your next step should be and gives you a knowledge base for the next project or problem that comes up.

You give it the Felix answer, when I would ask him a question I would get *just* enough info to figure it out. It really is s good teacher since it makes us think instead of spoon feeding.

 

[Brad]

18 rounds fiver? Wow. Mine has had over 500 I would say, none of them in he past 4 months or so. No desire. I had given serious thought to rebarreling mine and having Ben make me a stock. At least then it would be worth shooting.

The lube stuff is something that Ian, fiver, and I would discuss and once ideas off of. We all went in similar yet different directions. We all learned much about what doesn't work.

I gained a huge appreciation for the amount of work such testing really is. It is a job, like hard work! The fun quickly diminishes. At times the entire project gets set aside for months on end then I pick it back up. I refuse to let it become a burden. When it stops being fun I stop and shoot for enjoyment. In time I know I will go back to the project. In the end it is the enjoyment I get from communicating with fiver and Ian that brings me back.

 

[Ian]

My .30 XCB rifle has been doing nothing for some time but tying up a really nice Weaver 36-power scope. When I can convince myself to spend the money on a tight-necked '06 reamer I'll punch it out to that caliber, or just rebarrel it to .35 Whelen with a screw-on unit from EABCO. Some things just leave a bad taste in my mouth that is slow to go away, but the discussions around here without all the negativity, posturing, and "can't do" attitudes are helping a bunch. I just had to get away from it all for a while and do my own thing.

 

[fiver]

Rick.
I make my own...
part of the XCB rifle project for me was to become a better bullet/boolit maker..
you should see what the XCB rifle is capable of across the black canyon [300 sum yds] when a rock-chuck sticks it's head out for a moment too long.
I really need to get some J-4 30 caliber jackets..