so waht ya doin today?
- Thread starter fiver
- Start date
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
The Surplus Center has 60 pitch/20 tooth single row weld on sprockets and a wide range of hub sizes
and styles. Seems like a spacer and some bolts could add the second sprocket on pretty easily.
www.surpluscenter.com 800-488-3407 In Lincoln, Nebraska, just up the road from Brad.
and styles. Seems like a spacer and some bolts could add the second sprocket on pretty easily.
www.surpluscenter.com 800-488-3407 In Lincoln, Nebraska, just up the road from Brad.
smokeywolf
Well-Known Member
Bret, I don't know if they sell one-zies and two-zies but, back when I was purchasing manager for MGM Film Laboratories I used buy quite a few sprockets from "Martin Sprocket". I know they're on the internet. Might be worth checking out.
WW II Marine? God bless him! And God bless you for helping him out.
WW II Marine? God bless him! And God bless you for helping him out.
Ian
Notorious member
Here's another, choose your shaft size: https://www.thebigbearingstore.com/20-tooth-sprocket-for-60-roller-chain/
Generally the hubs are left soft and the teeth induction-hardened, therefore they can be trimmed with a lathe and siamesed.
Generally the hubs are left soft and the teeth induction-hardened, therefore they can be trimmed with a lathe and siamesed.
KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
Fiver, I've had several new Morton buildings over the years. Very organized, very neat job sites, little or no trash all of which is removed almost daily. Being pre-fab helps, not a lot of carpentry residue around. Part of the contract requires me (owner) to have dedicated places to drop the material, set up a portapotty, allow truck access, etc.
Had a few minutes to discuss making m/c parts with apprentice. Both of us agree to see what we might be able to do BUT we both decided that we don't want to run big high$ parts that would require investing in big high$ machines. That increases the stress level on everybody and honestly neither of us want to work more hours and increase our basic overhead costs. If you have a $200-$300k machine that needs paying off you have to run the darned thing as many hours as you can. Right now we are making enough money where we are to pay the bills for where we will move, and we can do more work when we get in new building so I don't see a problem there. I don't want to be so heavily invested that a few bad months and I'd have to hang a FOR SALE sign on the door. Once we get in new building for a few months and get a better handle on costs I should still have enough credit to buy a used Haas Super minimill and another (used) toolroom lathe.
Next step is the pouring of the concrete floor tomorrow.
Had a few minutes to discuss making m/c parts with apprentice. Both of us agree to see what we might be able to do BUT we both decided that we don't want to run big high$ parts that would require investing in big high$ machines. That increases the stress level on everybody and honestly neither of us want to work more hours and increase our basic overhead costs. If you have a $200-$300k machine that needs paying off you have to run the darned thing as many hours as you can. Right now we are making enough money where we are to pay the bills for where we will move, and we can do more work when we get in new building so I don't see a problem there. I don't want to be so heavily invested that a few bad months and I'd have to hang a FOR SALE sign on the door. Once we get in new building for a few months and get a better handle on costs I should still have enough credit to buy a used Haas Super minimill and another (used) toolroom lathe.
Next step is the pouring of the concrete floor tomorrow.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Sensible planning, Keith. Too easy to get deep into debt, and that can be a real problem. Slow, steady growth seems
more reasonable, much lower risk, and as you said - stress level on everyone. I have no idea what the cost of messing
up a blank on one of those wheels would be, but not a minor deal if there was some error made. I could imagine that
the aluminum block to carve that wheel out of might cost $1000 before you touch it.
I can only guess what one of those wheels
must cost with a LOT of machine hours to make one. Maybe $2-3K? More? Scrapping one of those would be serious heartburn.
Or maybe wallet-burn.
Bill
more reasonable, much lower risk, and as you said - stress level on everyone. I have no idea what the cost of messing
up a blank on one of those wheels would be, but not a minor deal if there was some error made. I could imagine that
the aluminum block to carve that wheel out of might cost $1000 before you touch it.
I can only guess what one of those wheelsmust cost with a LOT of machine hours to make one. Maybe $2-3K? More? Scrapping one of those would be serious heartburn.
Or maybe wallet-burn.
Bill
KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
Once you get into 3D 3 axis milling (or 4 or 5 axis) you get beyond the capability of hand programming because of the sculpted surfaces. That requires CAM software and a compatible or built in CAD program, you have to start with a 3D model and let software create toolpath code. Right there you are talking about $10/day ($3k+ a year) for a commercial license to most top rated CAM software.
Without 3D sculpted surfaces I can program lathe and mill code using Notepad at $0 software cost.
Bill, there are young eager guys that want to get rich and run all the latest "sexy" hardware and software. I will let them take the risk and earn the rewards with no envy at all. There are literally tons of simple parts that need to be produced that aren't sexy or sophisticated but need to be made accurately and in a timely fashion. I'll cede the limelight to others and just keep cashing the checks.
Without 3D sculpted surfaces I can program lathe and mill code using Notepad at $0 software cost.
Bill, there are young eager guys that want to get rich and run all the latest "sexy" hardware and software. I will let them take the risk and earn the rewards with no envy at all. There are literally tons of simple parts that need to be produced that aren't sexy or sophisticated but need to be made accurately and in a timely fashion. I'll cede the limelight to others and just keep cashing the checks.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Thanks for the suggestions on the sprockets boys. I checked again and it's an 18 tooth, not a 20, I need. Lots available from many sources. Should be pretty straight forward if I can get that darn gib key out!!!
Ian, I made a major purchase from thebigbearingstore.com some years back when I rebuilt the finals on a crawler. It was a nightmare that resulted in me having to call the company and do the "crazy/screaming/spittle coming through the phone/irate customer threatening a lawsuit" act just to get the parts I'd paid for some months before. I guess "in stock" means different things to some people than the rest of us. I would not recommend them unless they've got new management on board.
Ian, I made a major purchase from thebigbearingstore.com some years back when I rebuilt the finals on a crawler. It was a nightmare that resulted in me having to call the company and do the "crazy/screaming/spittle coming through the phone/irate customer threatening a lawsuit" act just to get the parts I'd paid for some months before. I guess "in stock" means different things to some people than the rest of us. I would not recommend them unless they've got new management on board.
fiver
Well-Known Member
I remember watching one of those rims being made in some TV show or other.
it took about an hour or so AIRC.
there was a lot of chips being made under a huge splash of coolant.
IMO if I were to be making aluminum rims it would be a main job, not a sideline here and there thing.
it took about an hour or so AIRC.
there was a lot of chips being made under a huge splash of coolant.
IMO if I were to be making aluminum rims it would be a main job, not a sideline here and there thing.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
I agree totally, Keith. Having worked on high end manufacturing/analysis software for many years, and dealt with
the budgets to support it, it is VERY expensive. At one point, my 6 person group had software licenses
which were costing $250K per year, and the IT dept was NOT happy about it, wanted us to "switch to
something cheaper". Fortunately, cooler head prevailed, as there was nothing with comparable capabilities
and we really DID need the high end analysis software. We did start looking at some of the government written
codes from our counterpart agencies, and some of them were pretty good, but the usability at times was
not good, bare bones stuff and cranky to run, limited error messages when it would stop working. We actually
had two complete suites of CAM software, which management kept grousing about $$$!, but our top CAM folks
could show that each one could NOT make some of the parts we needed and only with both could we
make the stuff we were tasked to build.
There are reasons that a lot of "expensive military aerospace stuff" is expensive. LOTS of overhead costs to work
at the top levels in anything. And frequently the designs have really complex shapes and the designers aren't
too interested in costs, just performance.
And a lot of need for more ordinary, straightforward work, too. Staying out of debt and away from markets which
might be more turbulent is always prudent for small businesses. Beside all that.....I think you guys are having fun
doing what you are doing, and if you are doing well enough financially to need a new building, that is great news.
Not everyone gets to enjoy their job and set it up in a way to make it low stress.
the budgets to support it, it is VERY expensive. At one point, my 6 person group had software licenses
which were costing $250K per year, and the IT dept was NOT happy about it, wanted us to "switch to
something cheaper". Fortunately, cooler head prevailed, as there was nothing with comparable capabilities
and we really DID need the high end analysis software. We did start looking at some of the government written
codes from our counterpart agencies, and some of them were pretty good, but the usability at times was
not good, bare bones stuff and cranky to run, limited error messages when it would stop working. We actually
had two complete suites of CAM software, which management kept grousing about $$$!, but our top CAM folks
could show that each one could NOT make some of the parts we needed and only with both could we
make the stuff we were tasked to build.
There are reasons that a lot of "expensive military aerospace stuff" is expensive. LOTS of overhead costs to work
at the top levels in anything. And frequently the designs have really complex shapes and the designers aren't
too interested in costs, just performance.
And a lot of need for more ordinary, straightforward work, too. Staying out of debt and away from markets which
might be more turbulent is always prudent for small businesses. Beside all that.....I think you guys are having fun
doing what you are doing, and if you are doing well enough financially to need a new building, that is great news.
Not everyone gets to enjoy their job and set it up in a way to make it low stress.
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I reckon there's guy's who enjoy sitting at BR stations blasting away looking for holy grails of groups?
Latest 22-250 with fluted,no less barrel..... is STILL too heavy to be used as a "pro" varmint walking rifle if use axt me..... just don't see the need in 10 shot groups under a time window as any sort of hunting rig.
Have carried that thing about 10 miles now and think it may be retired. Give me a #2 std profile sporter brrl that can cloverleaf 3 rds..... and all's good.
Going back to my ADL 223 and sps 7-08
Latest 22-250 with fluted,no less barrel..... is STILL too heavy to be used as a "pro" varmint walking rifle if use axt me..... just don't see the need in 10 shot groups under a time window as any sort of hunting rig.
Have carried that thing about 10 miles now and think it may be retired. Give me a #2 std profile sporter brrl that can cloverleaf 3 rds..... and all's good.
Going back to my ADL 223 and sps 7-08
Torch heat to get the gib out. Rusted in! Wedge the head out after heating, assume you can't get to the other side easy. 40SW does fine 401WW equal and H.T. Proper expander is a must as is the sizer! Soft alloy will work but you must insure sized dia. is correct.
Found a great load for 150 gold dots (BO version) in the BO this morning. Skinny nose expands just like cast through a fiberboard backer. Pushed about 2k - makes a good piggy round @ 200. BC is 35 something.
Yea, make sure you get plenty of water in the heat, did pretty good on the ~4mi (she says 6) hike @ 9K, exertion brought on altitude illness, nasty stuff. Last 1/4 of hike was miserable, couldn't lift legs to make a step. Oh well my last trip there.
Found a great load for 150 gold dots (BO version) in the BO this morning. Skinny nose expands just like cast through a fiberboard backer. Pushed about 2k - makes a good piggy round @ 200. BC is 35 something.
Yea, make sure you get plenty of water in the heat, did pretty good on the ~4mi (she says 6) hike @ 9K, exertion brought on altitude illness, nasty stuff. Last 1/4 of hike was miserable, couldn't lift legs to make a step. Oh well my last trip there.
fiver
Well-Known Member
yeah LOL.
that perfect shooting rifle has cost me some cash over the years about 4 miles in err up on a day hunt.
I now own a few lever rifle carbine models and a couple of 20" barreled synthetic stocked bolt guns that seem to get about as heavy as the heavy ones start out as on day one.
that perfect shooting rifle has cost me some cash over the years about 4 miles in err up on a day hunt.
I now own a few lever rifle carbine models and a couple of 20" barreled synthetic stocked bolt guns that seem to get about as heavy as the heavy ones start out as on day one.
KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
Bill, I had a short conversation with the m/c rep and asked if they had the software to generate the CNC code for their high end machines like the ones that made the rim. Of course. Ok, check and see if you can post-process the code for a Haas TM1 mill. If you give me the code then all I have to charge you for is the setup and machine time, right? And this is my hourly charge under those conditions. Arch of eyebrows... Oh, that's not too bad.
I'm thinking our shop charge is about 1/4 of what their hourly charges would have to be. They make $80k+ bikes and employ some highly skilled welders and fabricators. Not sure why the machine shop can't keep up but I know that local supply of skilled machinists is pretty low, maybe they just can't hire enough of the people with the proper skills. So maybe they sub out the simple shop clogging routine parts to us while they concentrate on the custom stuff. And if they give us the code ready to run we can make even complex parts at a low cost.
I'm thinking our shop charge is about 1/4 of what their hourly charges would have to be. They make $80k+ bikes and employ some highly skilled welders and fabricators. Not sure why the machine shop can't keep up but I know that local supply of skilled machinists is pretty low, maybe they just can't hire enough of the people with the proper skills. So maybe they sub out the simple shop clogging routine parts to us while they concentrate on the custom stuff. And if they give us the code ready to run we can make even complex parts at a low cost.