I have some lead from the scrap yard, some what I believe to be linotype from an old printing press , and some wheel weight lead. I have melted all of it into individual ingots, maybe 5lbs each some lighter. I've been researching the best recipe for super hard BNH of 22-30, but haven't found anything concrete. I've watched several videos on different techniques, some on powder coating, etc. I am wanting to shoot these at 2500 plus FPS if possible, .556, .308, .30-06. I'm new to the bullet casting and asking for some advise from people that are more knowledgeable on this subject. Thanks
Super Hard Bullet Recipe
- Thread starter stlg67
- Start date
L Ross
Well-Known Member
I'll hazard a guess, and forgive me if I am wrong, but it appears from your post that you'd like to recreate jacketed ammo velocities with bullets you can make your self in these times of shortages. Unfortunately, what you want to do could be compared to graduate level cast bullet technique. It is certainly doable and there are some experts on this site who have actually done what you are hoping for.
The real difficulty will be in trying to grasp why the techniques and recommended blends of alloys are required. Intuitively one would think that a cast bullet as hard as possible would be the closest to a jacketed projectile, but frankly that is neither possible nor desirable.
Hang on, this post is going to generate a lot of content.
The real difficulty will be in trying to grasp why the techniques and recommended blends of alloys are required. Intuitively one would think that a cast bullet as hard as possible would be the closest to a jacketed projectile, but frankly that is neither possible nor desirable.
Hang on, this post is going to generate a lot of content.
You'll get there quicker if you learn things like bullet fit first. That's far more important than how hard can I make them. But to give you some ideas on Super hard this may help.
Roto Metals Super Hard
Roto Metals Super Hard
Missionary
Well-Known Member
If you desire is very fast with cast than I would recommend you look at paper patching. Cheap and not entirely dependent on super hard lead mix.
But as Rick wrote.... "bullet fit first" or you will finish last.
But as Rick wrote.... "bullet fit first" or you will finish last.
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
Amen!! And it changes!!! Just like guns liking differe t brands or weights guns can show a difference to some hardnesses and more so to diameters. Even lubes used can change accuracy!!! Personally I powder coat and I have a number of reasons but cleaner barrels, softer alloys & higher velocities and less smoke are so e big reasons.
I make my allows two ways. One is pure a d various amounts of TIN/Pewter and pure and super hard mentioned above from Rotometals.
Good luck
cw
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Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I'll just say this- forget the idea of "harder is better" right now. It's not that simple. Successful cast shooting isn't about a Bhn number, it's about fit. The smaller the bore, the faster you want to go, the more involved and finicky everything becomes. You would be far better served by starting with learning how to cast bullets and make keepers and then work on learning to load them and get small groups at the 15-1800fps level.
Or you can do what many people do and ignore everythingsuggested and learn how to scrub the lead out of a barrel...
Or you can do what many people do and ignore everythingsuggested and learn how to scrub the lead out of a barrel...
Joshua
Taco Aficionado/Salish Sea Pirate/Part-Time Dragon
Casting your own bullets is a very rewarding hobby. There is a lot to learn. Just as in skiing or snow boarding, most of us didn’t show up at the mountain and start on the expert black diamond runs!
Many here are going to suggest the bunny slope to start with. I’m one of them.
I would suggest you start with a lower velocity goal, a target load in 30-06 or .308.
l have had mixed results when pushing a Lee 312-155 powder coated cast, gas checked, bullet faster than 2100 fps. One batch shot well for me. Another batch over the same powder charge was not nearly as accurate. Small changes in alloy composition and heat treatment seem to have big effects on accuracy the faster you go.
I load another bullet in my 30-06, the Lyman 311291. I gas check and tumble lube these with 45/45/10. I keep the velocity lower with this bullet. The alloy composition can vary quite a bit from batch to batch and this bullet over 16gr of 2400 doesn’t loose it accuracy.
Certain bullet designs can be pushed faster than others. I wouldn’t try to push my Lyman 311291 very fast because these bore riding bullets have a tendency to fail the faster you go. The Lee 312-155 with it’s gradual nose taper is known to tolerate higher velocity.
In my case I will be hunting with jacketed bullets this season. Pre-season I will get most of my trigger time shooting cast bullets, and shooting my air rifle. Casting allows me to shoot a lot more than if I would be able to by only buying factory ammo. It allows me to practice with the same rifle I will have out in the woods.
So my question for the OP is why do you need to go that fast?
Many here are going to suggest the bunny slope to start with. I’m one of them.
I would suggest you start with a lower velocity goal, a target load in 30-06 or .308.
l have had mixed results when pushing a Lee 312-155 powder coated cast, gas checked, bullet faster than 2100 fps. One batch shot well for me. Another batch over the same powder charge was not nearly as accurate. Small changes in alloy composition and heat treatment seem to have big effects on accuracy the faster you go.
I load another bullet in my 30-06, the Lyman 311291. I gas check and tumble lube these with 45/45/10. I keep the velocity lower with this bullet. The alloy composition can vary quite a bit from batch to batch and this bullet over 16gr of 2400 doesn’t loose it accuracy.
Certain bullet designs can be pushed faster than others. I wouldn’t try to push my Lyman 311291 very fast because these bore riding bullets have a tendency to fail the faster you go. The Lee 312-155 with it’s gradual nose taper is known to tolerate higher velocity.
In my case I will be hunting with jacketed bullets this season. Pre-season I will get most of my trigger time shooting cast bullets, and shooting my air rifle. Casting allows me to shoot a lot more than if I would be able to by only buying factory ammo. It allows me to practice with the same rifle I will have out in the woods.
So my question for the OP is why do you need to go that fast?
RBHarter
West Central AR
Hard isn't everything . Covered .
Twist is going to be an issue with speed . Contentious .
Your lino is plenty hard . Covered .
Gas checks and PC cover for a multitude of cast bullet inequities .
If the OP needs a velocity number it may be to meet an energy at range need or for a particular elevation at range need .
The energy@range is a standard that I use because it's a useful number for my needs .
Twist is going to be an issue with speed . Contentious .
Your lino is plenty hard . Covered .
Gas checks and PC cover for a multitude of cast bullet inequities .
If the OP needs a velocity number it may be to meet an energy at range need or for a particular elevation at range need .
The energy@range is a standard that I use because it's a useful number for my needs .
Ian
Notorious member
You won't achieve what you're after with brittle, hard, high-antimony alloy.
I suggest shelving everything you think you know, have read, or have been told and start over with advise from members of this board. VERY few people have successfully made lubricated cast bullets go much over 2000 fps from .30 caliber rifles but four of them are frequent contributors here. If you want to reach jacketed velocities with useful accuracy using cast bullets, you will need a jacket, either paper or plastic.
Take this one rifle at a time and post a help wanted thread. You will be asked for a chamber cast, dimensions from the cast, and dizens of questions about your components, tooling, knowledge, and loading techniques. This is NOT a matter of cast a bullet, stuff it in a case, and pull the trigger.
I suggest shelving everything you think you know, have read, or have been told and start over with advise from members of this board. VERY few people have successfully made lubricated cast bullets go much over 2000 fps from .30 caliber rifles but four of them are frequent contributors here. If you want to reach jacketed velocities with useful accuracy using cast bullets, you will need a jacket, either paper or plastic.
Take this one rifle at a time and post a help wanted thread. You will be asked for a chamber cast, dimensions from the cast, and dizens of questions about your components, tooling, knowledge, and loading techniques. This is NOT a matter of cast a bullet, stuff it in a case, and pull the trigger.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
Well, GOOD--we didn't scare you off. That does happen from time to time.
Some "Ground Rules" or definitions would help. In the context of bullet casting, whether for handguns or rifles, "Small Caliber" tends to be any caliber under .300". The availability of moulds for calibers under .3" dwindles greatly. I have a fair number of these, in 22--24--25--26 calibers. Most are Ideal/Lyman or RCBS. I would rate my successes vs. failures as very much right-side-up in 24, 25, and 26 caliber. The 22s.......well, it's uneven.
22 Hornet--pretty decent, but not stellar. I can get to +/- 1.5 MOA at 100 and 200 yards with Lyman #225438 at 2350-2400 FPS, J-words group 0.8-1.0 MOA from this same rifle. This performance was NOT influenced noticeably by metallurgy--both Linotype and 92/6/2 alloy did about as well at higher velocities. Scaling of bullets vs. HARSH eyeballing of casting quality didn't make a discernable difference either. Lino DOES cast some gorgeous bullets, though. The Hornet's 1-16" twist rate plays a significant role in enabling higher velocity.
223 Rem--Real uneven. As long as velocities stay below 1800 FPS, all is somewhat well in the 1-9" twists, once past that speed things go to h--l. Lots left to do here. One step forward, two steps back, more often than not. J-words do so well in 223 that I wonder if castings are worth the trouble in this caliber.
22-250--Not a lot of work with this caliber, but the work done has been encouraging. 1-12" twists in both of my rifles, which seems to be very cast-friendly so far. I have sent #225438 to the 2000 FPS level with fair accuracy (1.5-1.7 MOA), the RCBS 22-55-SP is more load-sensitive but has run to 1700 FPS with a few powders giving 1.3-1.5 MOA. When a powder/load doesn't work, the 22-250s are not coy about showing it. UGLY+.
All of the above bullet are sized @ .225" and lubed with LSS Carnauba Red. Yeah, I'm a Luddite--so sue me.
Some "Ground Rules" or definitions would help. In the context of bullet casting, whether for handguns or rifles, "Small Caliber" tends to be any caliber under .300". The availability of moulds for calibers under .3" dwindles greatly. I have a fair number of these, in 22--24--25--26 calibers. Most are Ideal/Lyman or RCBS. I would rate my successes vs. failures as very much right-side-up in 24, 25, and 26 caliber. The 22s.......well, it's uneven.
22 Hornet--pretty decent, but not stellar. I can get to +/- 1.5 MOA at 100 and 200 yards with Lyman #225438 at 2350-2400 FPS, J-words group 0.8-1.0 MOA from this same rifle. This performance was NOT influenced noticeably by metallurgy--both Linotype and 92/6/2 alloy did about as well at higher velocities. Scaling of bullets vs. HARSH eyeballing of casting quality didn't make a discernable difference either. Lino DOES cast some gorgeous bullets, though. The Hornet's 1-16" twist rate plays a significant role in enabling higher velocity.
223 Rem--Real uneven. As long as velocities stay below 1800 FPS, all is somewhat well in the 1-9" twists, once past that speed things go to h--l. Lots left to do here. One step forward, two steps back, more often than not. J-words do so well in 223 that I wonder if castings are worth the trouble in this caliber.
22-250--Not a lot of work with this caliber, but the work done has been encouraging. 1-12" twists in both of my rifles, which seems to be very cast-friendly so far. I have sent #225438 to the 2000 FPS level with fair accuracy (1.5-1.7 MOA), the RCBS 22-55-SP is more load-sensitive but has run to 1700 FPS with a few powders giving 1.3-1.5 MOA. When a powder/load doesn't work, the 22-250s are not coy about showing it. UGLY+.
All of the above bullet are sized @ .225" and lubed with LSS Carnauba Red. Yeah, I'm a Luddite--so sue me.
JonB
Halcyon member
stlg67,
Welcome to the forum.
My 2¢
Since you said you are new to casting, if you have a handgun, maybe start casting for that instead. Shooting home cast bullets in handguns is much more forgiving than Rifle. Low pressure calibers like 38spl, 45acp, or 45 colt are probably the most forgiving of all.
Welcome to the forum.
My 2¢
Since you said you are new to casting, if you have a handgun, maybe start casting for that instead. Shooting home cast bullets in handguns is much more forgiving than Rifle. Low pressure calibers like 38spl, 45acp, or 45 colt are probably the most forgiving of all.
waco
Springfield, Oregon
Welcome stlg67
I agree with Jon. Getting rifle bullets to shoot well at 1800fps can be tricky for a beginner. 2500+ will be a challenge to say the least. Not saying impossible, just a lot to wrap your head around if you are new to casting and reloading lead bullets. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress!
I’m not new to casting and shooting cast, and I have read so much information my head spun before I ever fired my first cast. Fortunately I have only had minor leading in one recolver because I listened to experience. When I tell you these folks here do not play, I mean it. These guys know their stuff. These folks here are some of the most knowledgeable and helpful folks on cast shooting, I’ve ever ran across on the internet. They will save you a lot of learning pains if you will listen and ask questions.
What I will say is strap in and hold on cause your fixing to go deep down the rabbits hole chasing what you are after.
I’m getting ready to build some 1800-2000 FPS 45-70 loads and I have been working in this about 3 months and haven’t even loaded the first projectile in a case because I’ve been researching and studying and asking questions about what I’m getting into. Finally settled on the bullet diameter to try last week and started sizing bullets. Point being this stuff takes time to do and do it right.
What I will say is strap in and hold on cause your fixing to go deep down the rabbits hole chasing what you are after.
I’m getting ready to build some 1800-2000 FPS 45-70 loads and I have been working in this about 3 months and haven’t even loaded the first projectile in a case because I’ve been researching and studying and asking questions about what I’m getting into. Finally settled on the bullet diameter to try last week and started sizing bullets. Point being this stuff takes time to do and do it right.
Plans do have a way of changing. They might get backed up to 1600-1800. I may find the accuracy I’m looking for in that range with the 400 ish grain projectiles. Which will be fine with me.2000fps+45-70=Ouch!.....
Joshua
Taco Aficionado/Salish Sea Pirate/Part-Time Dragon
| 458 Win. Mag. (400 at 2050) | 9.0 | 41.7 |
| .30-06 Spfd. (180 at 2700) | 8.0 | 20.3 |
| 12 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/2 at 1260) | 7.5 | 45.0 |