Super Hard Bullet Recipe

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
I did say to start with.
I bought a lb Of H110 when I first started messing with cast and It took two years at it before I got to loading cast at the top end for pistol and for rifle so it just sat for a while. Plus I found I could Still make a decent rifle round with Universal.
He keeps to powders that are more versital along a wider range he will be able to start at slower speeds and have more time to work up to higher velocities. Learn the process of casting lube and fitment with a little less drama. IMHO
Please correct me if I am wrong.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
one of the best learning aids there is, is to do a full workup from the fastest to the slowest powders you have on hand.
pick a basic pressure point then just keep on going and going, making steps with each powder along the way [like you would if you were working a load]
if you have 9-10 powders [between say clay's and H-110] you'll most likely find they all have at east two good accuracy nodes and several near the middle will have three.
 

STIHL

Well-Known Member
I’ve had really good results with titegroup as well. It might be easier if you told everyone what powders you do have so we will know what your working with.
 

stlg67

Southeast Texas
Just stay away from the"Magnum" powders to start with. Like H110.
Hp38 is also a good powder to start with. List out some of your pistol powders, I am sure you will get some feed back.
In fact some Chermongions here might come back be writing full page articles complete with links and a reference list, on which of your powders they like best for cast. LOL
Thanks, I have Acc#5 that I've used for years and IMR blue that I've been loading 150g 9mm from Percision Bullets. I also have H110 that I've loaded .357. .44 mag regular jacketed bullets.
 

stlg67

Southeast Texas
Just stay away from the"Magnum" powders to start with. Like H110.
Hp38 is also a good powder to start with. List out some of your pistol powders, I am sure you will get some feed back.
In fact some Chermongions here might come back be writing full page articles complete with links and a reference list, on which of your powders they like best for cast. LOL
I've used H110 for .357 / .44 mag loads with jacketed bullets. I've used Accurate #5 with 9mm 125 g and 45 acp loads. I've just started using IMR blue with 150 g 9mm bullets I purchased from Percision Bullets from Kemp, Tx. The reason I started using IMR blue was due to the power shortage and I found this in stock back in Sept 2020 so I bought 8lbs, should have bought more. I have it pushing the 9mm150g around 950 fps. Those 9mm bullets are coated lead bullets, from Percision Bullets which I'm sure you've heard of before.
 

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
Well I am sure the fellows here will be willing to walk you thru when you are ready with the powders you have.
As far as load work up, sounds like you already have a good foundation. You just need to figure where and how much the powders you have work with the cast bullets and alloys you have..
Where you are at is most often the best place to start.
Now that some of the "wiser then me" fellows know where your are as far as powders, it will be much easier for them to help you get started. If they trump me take their word over mine.
I am into this thing just a few years, but some of these fellows have decades of experience with many powders and many cast bullets.


Do you have a mould yet ?
 
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STIHL

Well-Known Member
I personally haven’t used Accurate #5 but it falls in the burn specs I would say would be fairly forgiving with cast bullets. What is your first load your looking at doing and I’ll look in my Lyman book and see what is listed. I’ve got a few pounds of the blue too. Have not used it yet but it may be a good choice as well. It’s a little slower than than the #5 but still pretty fast.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
they [Mr. Hodgdon hisself] initially said it was a direct replacement right down to just using the same bushings [powder dial settings etc]
then when it hit the market that got drawn back to weight for weight since the density was incorrect, even though the burn rate overlapped.
 

stlg67

Southeast Texas
Well I am sure the fellows here will be willing to walk you thru when you are ready with the powders you have.
As far as load work up, sounds like you already have a good foundation. You just need to figure where and how much the powders you have work with the cast bullets and alloys you have..
Where you are at is most often the best place to start.
Now that some of the "wiser then me" fellows know where your are as far as powders, it will be much easier for them to help you get started. If they trump me take their word over mine.
I am into this thing just a few years, but some of these fellows have decades of experience with many powders and many cast bullets.


Do you have a mould yet ?
I have 158 g .38/.357, 55g .224, 150g .30, .452 45 molds. The .38/.357 is a round nose mold, .224, .30, .45 are flat nose molds.
I cast the first bullets the other day with the .38/.357 158g mold. I cast 3 different styles of lead that I have, the plumbers lead had a BHN of 8, the wheel weights had a BHN of 20-21, the linotype which I don't have much of BHN 26-28. All were water quenched right out of the mold. I remember what several people have said about not worrying about the hardness right now, but I was wanting to locate the antimony for the future to achieve the hardness around a 25 BHN or so.
Also I was wondering if someone would know the best way to mix the plumbers lead of 8 BHN to achieve a BHN of around 15 or so for the higher velocity on the .357? I was going to stay with this caliber until I can get better with the casting technique, because I am seeing the difference in the bullet weights with the casting and I need to work on getting them a lot more consistent, if anyone has some ideas they will be welcomed.

I'm currently getting the plumbers lead at a scrap yard but the wheel weighs are getting harder to locate with all the steel and zinc that's being used now. The linotype I picked up from my neighbor but he doesn't believe it's available from the printing place he got it from. I've been trying to locate more but with no luck as of yet, unless I buy it.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
The biggest secret to consistent bullet weight is a consistent "mold" temperature. Practice and experience will make that pretty easy.

Confused by your desire for such hard bullets. Not needed and can be detrimental to both accuracy and leading of the barrel. My very top end 357 mag loads are most accurate at 18 BHN with zero leading. That's a 180 gr bullet at 1550 fps from a 9 inch barrel. That's top end and anything harder than 18 BHN opens up long range groups.

Are you using a LEE hardness tester?
 
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RBHarter

West Central AR
The best description of getting consistent weights .
Get a clock with an analog face and a second hand . Visualize pouring heat to maintain mould temperature .
Find a nominal pour time , then pour every pour inside that time window . If it takes 3 even 5 seconds to fill the hot mould with full puddles on the sprue that's what it takes . If you have one or more cavities that don't fill out or cold sprue you change the pour order or pour faster . I have a 5c that has to be cast 12345,54321 or it drops 1 or 5 cold sprue . Don't even ask about the joys of little bitty bullets . Allow cooling by the clock . As long as your pot is reasonably accurate this works . I use the sprue shine visual method , but I've been casting 15 yr , probably over 25,000 from .690 RB down to a 225-37 , and I tend to be aware of color shifts even when I can't see them ........it makes sense to someone . Use the clock at first anyway .
Do each step , pour , cool , cut , open, dump , close , repeat , within the time you've allowed , don't make it feel rushed , it may take 200 or more repetitions to get a muscle memory more possibly if you don't have something you do often that is similar motions .

I have a huge 8c iron mould when it's running smooth and I'm in the place it pours 196 gr 45 cal SWC plus or minus .6 gr and 6 holes are .3 or less . I have a 3c aluminum 45-535 that pours within 1.5 gr . I have a Lee 6c 401-175 that pours 3@175.5 , 1@174 , 1@173.2 and 1@171 plus or minus 1 gr with potentially 5 gr variation across a pour lot . 1,5&6 run cold . I don't know why , but at 25 yd in a 40 consistently 4" is good enough so if it has a good basic visual look it's good enough . You don't sub MOA 23-2700 fps from 62 gr 22s , 130-140gr , 270s and 7mm with 3-4% weight slop . 35 cal isn't so picky , 380, 9mm, 38/357 , &358 Win , with 38/35 in several revolvers and a carbine held to 3% shoot as well I can . Those are 358-158 RNFP from an old Lee 2c plain base run 850 , 1050 and 1410 fps with water dropped WW , and Unique . 4"@25 yd 38 , 5" 50&100 yd 357 revolver and carbine respectively .

I'm stubborn , often hard headed , gone the long way around for a result , and listened to many here , CB long ago , and others that were actually doing these things . I had to find that first path for a rifle the hard way with 2 very ........ persnickety rifles for myself . Once I got the first one to shoot and I looked at what was going on with 38/357 and 45 Colts successes and pick apart what I did right and wrong in a 32 Rem and figured out a barrel defect in an 06' , it all came together , clicked , and made sense .
I struggled a lot and if I had tried to only learn it from a book I wouldn't be shooting cast . The Lyman 47 read like Charlie Browns teacher in the casting section .

1 . Try stuff . If it doesn't work you've learned that that didn't work that way .
2 . 0000 steel and Kroil are a good thing to have on hand .
3 . Try again with one change .
4 . Slower powders are easier on bullets , there's a good reason why Unique is recommended so often .
5 . Lead at the breach is sizing . Lead at the muzzle is lube .
6 . Tipped or broad side holes are twist related and not always but often because the bullet isn't holding the lands . Bigger works as often as harder .
7 . If it chambers freely it's not too big .
8 . Seriously plain base WW water cooled will handle 32kpsi and is completely suitable at 18-20 bhn for 9,40, and 357 .
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I'm a glutton for punishment, so let me put it straight out there and ask- Why do you think you need 25Bhn and just what gave you the idea that was a magic number? What information are you seeing that says you need that, that a relative number will make a difference? Also, are you aware your alloys are going to age harden over a period of weeks? What sources are you using to educate yourself on cast?

BTW- What did your first castings look like? What mould maker and model #'s are you using?