Super Hard Bullet Recipe

Joshua

Joshua

Taco Aficionado/Salish Sea Pirate/Part-Time Dragon
Basically the same analogy as Ian’s. In the blade smithing community the spring steel alloy 5160 is adored for both being easy to harden and being very tough. You could grind a similar looking blade out of cast iron and it would break like pencil lead from a side load impact. Not the 5160 it would flex just like a spring, and depending on the angle of the load it often will return to it’s original shape. Both can be made hard, but one is brittle and the other is tough.
 
Mitty38

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
Loving this thread. I am learning, getting verification of things I kind of knew. But were iffy on.
The different perspectives are coming together to create a greater understanding for me.
Joshua just turned a light bulb on in my head. And I thought I was smarter then him.:eek: LOL
 
RBHarter

RBHarter

West Central AR
Often in this I find the metalergists , chemist , and Pratt and Whitney mechanic saying the same thing in different languages . When one part of any of it clicks and can be made tangible or relatable it isn't very long before the chapter makes sense . Sometimes we forget this can turn into War and Peace and what was needed was a little Fun with Dick and Jane or 1 fish 2 fish .
 
Joshua

Joshua

Taco Aficionado/Salish Sea Pirate/Part-Time Dragon
Mitty38 said:
Joshua just turned a light bulb on in my head. And I thought I was smarter then him.:eek: LOL
Click to expand...

I’ve been a college art student with an emphasis in small scale metals(jewelry, forged spoons, raised vessels i.e. teapots, and chase and repousse work), an apprentice blacksmith, a journeyman blacksmith, an apprentice refrigeration fitter/brazer/welder, journeyman facilities pipewelder/pipefitter, journeyman marine welder/pipewelder, welding instructor. And now in my current job at the Prototyping Shop, I’m a weird hybrid of welder/designer/draftsman/apprentice machinist/and assistant manager.

Mitty, you probably are smarter than me. However this dyslexic metalcrafts nerd has been around the block once or twice!

One of the positive attributes of my type of dyslexia is a heightened spatial aptitude. That’s one reason so many of us end up in the trades. It’s not that people like me are stupid, it’s just that geometry is so much more enjoyable to us than calculus, (this also depends on the teacher).

It’s important to know your weaknesses and your strengths. It’s never a good idea to reverse your numbers when doing machining calculations. This week I learned how to write a program to mill a hex. You better believe that I triple checked my calculations.;)
 
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Ian

Ian

Notorious member
Da same Rick.

Joshua and I have a lot in common except he's got a lot more experience and knowledge actually making stuff on a professional level and I was educated as a mechanical engineer.

The comment about spacial aptitude really is the key here, whether you are a natural or have to make yourself grind through it mechanically. Going through a process of dynamic thinking, in three dimensions, helps us visualize and understand what is happening to a bullet and its internal microcrystalline structure (which undergoes plastic deformation 12,000 psi) as it is launched out of the case neck by gas pressure going from 1 bar to 30 bar in a few milliseconds.
 
Bliksem

Bliksem

Active Member
I'm of the opinion that how we treat the cast bullet after it comes out of the mold has a huge impact on the outcome when launched out of the cartridge. The alloy used also greatly affects the outcome as the "wrong" alloy will leave us with way less wriggle room for our unintentional negative actions. (Analogy: aircraft fly just fine on their own, it's the idiot on the stick that messes this up. For a brief period in my life I owned and flew an Extra 300L, BTW.)

I have learned that using a good mold that casts the proper size that requires minimal sizing performs the best. Using a close equivalent of Lyman #2 along with using barrels of good quality together with good chambering and appropriate twist rate along with good sizing and loading practices allow me to exceed the velocity barrier that others claim exists. This is not a reference to the rpm barrier as it is out there, I choose lazier twist rates more appropriate to cast and they work for me allowing me to get close to factory ammunition in terms of velocity.

Where most cast reloaders fail is distorting the bullet and loading an out of concentric round that is bound to be inaccurate.

Asbestos suit on, flame away!
 
Bret4207

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
RBHarter said:
Often in this I find the metalergists , chemist , and Pratt and Whitney mechanic saying the same thing in different languages . When one part of any of it clicks and can be made tangible or relatable it isn't very long before the chapter makes sense . Sometimes we forget this can turn into War and Peace and what was needed was a little Fun with Dick and Jane or 1 fish 2 fish .
Click to expand...
Amen budda, the hard part is figuring out how to put something into words that someone else will read and that "click" will click.
 
Bret4207

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Rick said:
You can have several different lead alloys made up of many different metals and every one of them could measure the same BHN getting there by different means and everyone of them will perform differently.
Click to expand...
Another amen! I've tried putting the same idea into, "I can take the same alloy and make it give 3 different Bhns or 3 different alloys and make them give the same Bhns." For me that clicks, for others, not so much.
 
Mitty38

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
Joshua said:
I’ve been a college art student with an emphasis in small scale metals(jewelry, forged spoons, raised vessels i.e. teapots, and chase and repousse work), an apprentice blacksmith, a journeyman blacksmith, an apprentice refrigeration fitter/brazer/welder, journeyman facilities pipewelder/pipefitter, journeyman marine welder/pipewelder, welding instructor. And now in my current job at the Prototyping Shop, I’m a weird hybrid of welder/designer/draftsman/apprentice machinist/and assistant manager.

Mitty, you probably are smarter than me. However this dyslexic metalcrafts nerd has been around the block once or twice!

One of the positive attributes of my type of dyslexia is a heightened spatial aptitude. That’s one reason so many of us end up in the trades. It’s not that people like me are stupid, it’s just that geometry is so much more enjoyable to us than calculus, (this also depends on the teacher).

It’s important to know your weaknesses and your strengths. It’s never a good idea to reverse your numbers when doing machining calculations. This week I learned how to write a program to mill a hex. You better believe that I triple checked my calculations.;)
Click to expand...
Just joking around a bit. Now you have gone and made me feel bad about myself.:(
Course I am good at putting my foot in my mouth....thus my tag line below.:)
 
S

stlg67

Southeast Texas
Sorry been busy and recovering from covid. Good new the family is good.
I've put together a .223 bullet with BHN of 20.9 and I did my first power coating. I'm fixing to try and work up a load and see how they do on the range. I have gas checks but I was going to try first without.
 
Bret4207

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
If they shoot good it's because they fit, not the Bhn. If they don't shoot good, it's because they don't fit, not the Bhn. Just sayin'...
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
Glad you're recovering. I'm currently getting my ass whooped by the second vaccination and damned sure don't want any part of the real thing if my vax reaction means sick in half a dozen ways for over two weeks.

Work up what kind of load? No chex = probably not going to cycle an AR before you lose accuracy, but sometimes these things must be discovered for oneself.
 
CWLONGSHOT

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
I mixed what shoulda been a hard alloy Thursday.... Tested this AM... 10bhn! WHAT!?!?!

So Ill be making another batch...

CW
 
CWLONGSHOT

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Not testing a ingot. Know about that... This is a bullet 24 & 36 & 48 hours after cast & about a month after smelting for some ingots and a year from last mono smelt.
CW
 
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JonB

JonB

Halcyon member
CWLONGSHOT said:
I mixed what shoulda been a hard alloy Thursday.... Tested this AM... 10bhn! WHAT!?!?!

So Ill be making another batch...

CW
Click to expand...
Are you using the Lee hardness tester?
I have a long story about me getting wrong readings from mine.
It turned out the reloading Press I was using, had a small bit of slop, and if I'd lean (sideways) on the handle (which I seemingly did on a random basis), the ram would lean too and make the Lee tool create a oblong dent, which I should have noticed when I would get a softer then expected reading...but I didn't notice it...Honestly, it took me about a year to figure out the problem.
 
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