Synthetic/conventional 2 stroke oil

claude

New Member
I have done several searches here and elsewhere and cannot find if it is acceptable to use non synthetic 2 stroke oil as a sprue plate/pin lube.

I run two stroke engines and have great luck with conventional oils, so I can't see why conventional 2 stroke oil shouldn't perform well, but being new to the boolit casting arena, thought it prudent to ask.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Lots of people have used a traditional non-syn 2 stroke for just that purpose. It will work just fine.
 

JonB

Halcyon member
I would assume a full synth 2 cycle oil would be cleaner and less likely to stain the mold and would smoke less, if you are casting inside, like I am...and heck, a 2.6 oz of synth mix is only like $1.50
BUT, as far as functionality, think about this, Lee recommends using the their bullet lube (Beeswax/alox) as mold/sprue plate lube, which burns and scrotches and stains the aluminum, but apparently it works, I've never used it, but if a mold manufacturer recommends it, it must work.
that's my 2¢
Jon
 

KHornet

Well-Known Member
Necessity they say is the mother of invention! Believe in the old yankee saying: "If it works, don't fix it!". I never tried it, but see no reason why it wouldn't work just fine.
 

williamwaco

Active Member
I used Bees Wax and 50/50 ALOX for 50 years before I found Bull Plate.
I got a small bottle with a mold and have been using it 5 or 6 years.
That small bottle is a lifetime supply if you use it correctly.
I have read several opinions that it is in fact synthetic 2 cycle oil.
Don't know and don't really care. I agree that it is better than bees wax or alox ( but just barely ).
If I outlive that bottle I will probably return to beeswax.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Some of the synthetic 2 stroke oils leave essentially zero residue, and hold on
for very high temps.

That said - I, too, use BullPlate lube, have a bottle, very careful not to spill it, should
last for a VERY long time.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I have Bullplate but have been using Ester 100 AC oil instead. I find it works as well and I have a bunch from lube testing. I reapply every 30-50 pours either way.

Never used a non-syn 2 stroke but it wouldn't bother me a bit to try it.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
I can't see any way it wouldn't work. Consider it's intended environment, a combustion chamber where it must still lube the cylinder walls & rod bearings of a high RPM engine. Sprue plate lube is a mild environment in the extreme.
 

williamwaco

Active Member
I have Bullplate but have been using Ester 100 AC oil instead. I find it works as well and I have a bunch from lube testing. I reapply every 30-50 pours either way.

Never used a non-syn 2 stroke but it wouldn't bother me a bit to try it.

OH MY!

I reapply about every other session, or if it begins to bind.
Do I need to use it more often?
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I like to keep an eye on the top of the mould and bottom of the plate. If I see any lead, even a silver coloration, I reapply.
I like to keep the alignment pins well lubed too. Also I focus on the pivot point for the plate and keep it lines to reduce galling and wear.

I may overdue this stuff but I prefer to over line than go back to the days when my mould had lots of galling on top of blocks.
 

Ian

Notorious member
The AC ester oil does seem to need more frequent re-application. I'm still looking for the Liquid Wrench dry spray lube since I read that it is a good solution for aluminum moulds that for some unknown reason just love to gall around the pivot screw. I can get the graphite spray lube, but not the stuff I've read about, it's supposed to have ceramic powder or some such that embeds and creates a non-stick surface.
 

62chevy

Active Member
The AC ester oil does seem to need more frequent re-application. I'm still looking for the Liquid Wrench dry spray lube since I read that it is a good solution for aluminum moulds that for some unknown reason just love to gall around the pivot screw. I can get the graphite spray lube, but not the stuff I've read about, it's supposed to have ceramic powder or some such that embeds and creates a non-stick surface.

Is this what you want?
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...10057606-P?searchTerm=liquid+wrench+dry+spray
 

Ian

Notorious member
Yes, I believe so. Looks like they have some in stock at my local store, I'll have to go pick some up on the way home. I checked everywhere in town just a few months ago, nobody had it or could get it.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Please let it fail. I see this as one more way for Ian to entice me to shop at the parts store.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Hmmm, you might be SOL, Brad. I just shook this can up really good and rinsed down the sprue plate of a brand-new aluminum mould and proceeded to "work" the stuff in by cycling the plate under pressure while still wet. This generated a little bit of light grey aluminum residue, which I wiped off and then gave it another coat, this time letting it rinse off all the residue and then let it dry without cycling. I worked it some more after drying and repeated the rinse coat/dry procedure again, and it's slick as greased owl snot and doesn't seem to be wearing any more metal. The sprue plate will definitely need to be tightened after this. The stuff smells strongly like rubbing alcohol and leaves not a hint of oily residue behind. If it will hold up to casting temperatures it might be a winner. Only drawback I can see is re-applying it to a hot mould, but if it works as advertised after a few sessions that shouldn't be necessary any more.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Well, I tried casting with the Liquid Wrench dry boron/Teflon lube tonight. I can't tell if it's the best thing ever and I just haven't perfected the technique, or it's a waste of time to try. I cast about 600 ACE 314-235 bullets (two pots worth) and ended up with some bad scratches and a few lead smears, not to mention a scabby Teflon coating on the bottom of the sprue plate. What I DID get was some of the best bullet bases ever, and no real problems operating the mould. If I could prevent the galling/scratching it would really be a good thing. Might work best on iron moulds. I'll re-dress the blocks on this mould and probably go back to using Amsoil Saber.
 

James W. Miner

Active Member
Believe it or not, any lead buildup can gall a mold top. I have tried everything from Graphite, moly spray to dry moly and all oils but the truth is a clean, mold cut right with end mills will leave ripples that act like bearings.
The next thing to gall a mold is a burr and all edges of the sprue plate must be rounded and polished.
One of the best is Rapine Mold Prep but sorry, Ray retired. The ripples I make will hold lubes.
Ray Pine knew molds and asked me if I wanted to buy his business but I was on SS at the time.
Cut almost molten lead and you have a mess and even I will get a small smear of lead once in a while. No oil made will stop smears when glove cutting. let the sprue get harder.
Now if you do get a smear, strike a wood match and blow it out quick, Rub the smear with it and it will take it off. bad might need 2 or 3 matches.
About any oil is a good flux, waxes better, keeps oxygen from the metal so it will tin nicely. You just tin your molds.
I made a test of boolit lubes with a soldering iron on brass and copper. All made a good flux. Why flux a mold?
Alox burns, leaves ash. lube is gone. I swear it burns in the bore too. Why else get smoke and stink? I refuse to use Alox in any form for a boolit lube. The stuff was made for a rust preventative on metal and even fails there when it hardens and water gets under it. Just what nut case decided it was a boolit lube?
But back to the OP's question, synthetic will take more heat. But not all are equal, Stihl synthetic carbon-ed up rings to failure and exhausts to failure in chain saws, blowers, etc. Opti 2 solved it. I think that is Bullplate, blue in color.
You really waste your time to make casting faster. Rapine was micro fine graphite in alcohol. Worked very good. yet it never allowed cutting molten lead. Just a lube to prevent wear.