Tale of two Carbines

Cherokee

Medina, Ohio
Went to the outdoor range today (beat the rain) with my old GI 30 M1 Carbine and the new Ruger PC. The 30 Carbine has been my fun cast bullet shooter and plinker for a number of years with the Lyman 311359GC. With AA-9 pushing the 115 gr bullet, it hits 1600 fps at the muzzle and still hits 1300 fps at 100 yd. This is a minimum load for semi-auto function. The Ruger PC was shooting my full power load of Lee 356120TC powered by HS-6 that hits 1345 fps at the muzzle from the Ruger. I wanted a shoot-off to see which one was more fun , which was more accurate. The 30 Carbine has GI sights, peep and post; the Ruger now has a Vortex Venom red dot so I was also comparing the sighting systems. Range only has 25 & 100 yd options so was shooting @ 25 yd from the bench. Well, here are the three target for each gun.
First the 30 Carbine:
10210

Next the Ruger PC:
10211

Seems the Ruger PC is the winner for ease of sighting and accuracy, at least today. I have shot tighter 25 yd groups with the Carbine in the past. I thought it strange that I noticed more recoil with the Ruger than the 30 Carbine. Think I'll keep both, they are fun.

Interesting side note: Positioning the orange aim point on top of the GI peep & post sights consistently was much more difficult than it was positioning the Red Dot in the center of the black.
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
AHH! and I was pulling for the old GI carbine! Bet you can get it to outshoot the ruger with a lot of TLC! :)
 

Cherokee

Medina, Ohio
Well, the GI has a problem - it's hard to see any rifling left in the barrel. This is a re-import from Asia, no telling how many rounds its had nor how well it was maintained. I'm glad it shoot as well as it does, and I had to work with the loads to get this far. If I could get a Red Dot mounted on it, I think I could do better. I've always had a Carbine and really like them. I also presently have a Winchester with somewhat better rifling which I use for jacketed bullets.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
orange dots are the bane of my shooting life.
I look down there and the thing starts flip flopping back and forth like the target is rubber.
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Well, the GI has a problem - it's hard to see any rifling left in the barrel. This is a re-import from Asia, no telling how many rounds its had nor how well it was maintained. I'm glad it shoot as well as it does, and I had to work with the loads to get this far. If I could get a Red Dot mounted on it, I think I could do better. I've always had a Carbine and really like them. I also presently have a Winchester with somewhat better rifling which I use for jacketed bullets.
I bet you it needs a 32 cal bullet to outshoot that Ruger!!!
Jim
 
F

freebullet

Guest
Sad, I haven't fished this season yet. It's been a real whirlwind of a year. The boat is coming out soon, I'm running away with it soon as I can.
 
F

freebullet

Guest
It's more of a storage issue. Out of long rifle space & would need to rearrange for more handguns. So, sell some or buy another safe is where it's headed.
 

Ian

Notorious member
The M1 Carbine's gas system soaks up a lot of recoil and the recoprocating mass is likely far less than the blowback 9mm. I chose a custom DI gas AR-45 as my fun PCC because the heavy bolts of the blowbacks knock around too much both directions, especially on closing. You prepare for the quick follow-up shot with a Hi-Point and it's like someone stiff-armed you from behind as the bolt goes home.
 

Cherokee

Medina, Ohio
For years I wanted someone to make the M1 Carbine in 9mm but I guess blowback is cheaper to manufacture. Don't care for AR platform in 9. The Hi-Point is limited by magazine and a horrible trigger. I have an old Thompson-like Commando in 45 ACP that shoots great but again has a horrible trigger.
 

Ben

Moderator
Staff member
I have absolutely zero complaints with my Ruger 9mm carbine.

Ben
mJWBQ4U.jpg
 
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Ian

Notorious member
Cherokee, the 9mm Para. doesn't generate enough gas volume to operate conventional gas systems such as the AR or the short-stroke piston system of the M1. The .45 ACP barely works an AR and that's with a .125" gas port about 1/4" ahead of the case mouth. A gas system specifically engineered for the cartridge with extremely light parts may work but it would probably have to be a completely original design, so in that sense a blowback or delayed-blowback design is the most practical as well as least expensive.
 

KHornet

Well-Known Member
Got rid of my last mil carbine quite a few years back. Never
found much use of one.

Paul
 

Cherokee

Medina, Ohio
Ian - never thought about the technical reasons. Good thoughts.

Paul - I used my M1 Carbine for small game hunting tramping thru the Everglades in my much younger days. Light for carry and plenty power for small stuff and snakes. But mostly, it was just fun to shoot. Today, they are still fun guns, nothing serious. The Ruger falls into the same fun category, plus it shares ammo with several pistols, and appears to be more accurate.