Thanks Brad! A place to post "Low Node" stuff

Ian

Notorious member
Since the pressure happens all at once, right when the bullet is pushing through the throat, Universal makes the system sensitive to little inconsistencies in the case neck or seating depth. Unique and Herco are good at soaking up bumps and delivering a consistent push IF you can get it lit off just the same way every time, such as by elevating the muzzle prior to each shot. I'm still a fan of the old Alliant powders due to longer burn curve...except Red Dot. RD's saving grace in large cases is high load density.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
that's why I like green-dot.
it takes even more to do the same thing red-dot does at the same pressure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: abj

Ian

Notorious member
Mach-2 is about where the enjoyment wears off rather quickly.
I stopped much of the XCB loads where I did because the recoil was really affecting the accuracy potential of ME not the rifle nor the cast bullets, you could see it happening in several of the loads groups where they were clustered together tightly for the first 4-5 shots then flung out as the shooting went on.
the gun was just beating me down at that point, and the last thing I need is to develop a flinch.

These days, especially due to eye doctor's orders, I'm relegating most of my HV to small bores. 190 grains at 2700 fps is more than I want, even in a 10-12lb bench rifle. It's SO much more fun to lob bullets at 1,000 fps to 100 or 200 yards, especially with a suppressor. PUTT..........*tink* :cool:

So, is this now the sub-forum to discuss subsonic, suppressed loads?
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Waco, found a little info on Unique in an older Lyman book with a 210gr. They started at 10gr.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
yeah,,, I'd call it the slow motion section..
sub sonic fit's that description for sure.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
They probably did, but I don't recall. It was one of the coil bound 1970's issues. I'd lean towards Red Dot myself. Had good luck with it. The 2400 also works good. I haven't messed with Unique much in rifle cases myself. I would think any of the Lyman Cast Bullet books would have the info you want and most of the standard Lyman books have that info too, just less of it.
 

Ben

Moderator
Staff member
This is a 180 gr. cast plain base with 8.5 grs. of Unique in the 30-06 with Unique. 5 round group at 50 yards.

UBzRaCh.jpg
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Waco
Not a 308 but
A 30 06 with a 170 gr will make 1400 13.5 gr 2400, or 10 gr red dot or 11 unique
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
it is, but almost all of it is universal or close enough to get started with.

the gas volume and pressures are low so it becomes more a matter of case and bore volume than a safety issue.
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Waco 1400 with a 209gr should be right about 14.5 gr 2400 24in barrel
That would be what I would my choice and I would start at 13 gr since I like my bullets in the rifling
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ian

Ian

Notorious member
Definitely close enough to get started with either one (and a bunch of others), just pointing out that it might not be safe to stuff 13.5 grains of Red Dot behind a 210-grain bullet in a .308, for example. We have to remember this is a public forum and lots of people with not enough experience to know better troll the internets for load data. The last mention of .308 was on the first page, and the last caliber mentioned was Ben's .30-'06. None of the photos listing load data indicate which caliber it is for, which might get someone with low reading comprehension in trouble.
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Ian
Absolutely correct!
I dislike loading charts especially the old ones! Now do I look at them yes! But never use them as gospel!
For instance I develop all my target loads with the bullet touching the lands..... No loading chart starts there!
I may pick a powder based on the suggested start load but always start 50% lower if even.
Remember guys you need to think about what you are doing! Low node shooting
is not for the novice. There are many dangers ( like double loading) there is a lot of discipline needed! Please learn from these threads and ask questions and most of all never use someone's suggested loads unless you are going to start much lower and work up!
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
BTW 13.5 Red Dot scares me ( and I have shot it) the rifle just doesn't feel right
Not worth it when I can shoot 5 gr of it more accurately and safer
 

Ben

Moderator
Staff member
BTW 13.5 Red Dot scares me ( and I have shot it) the rifle just doesn't feel right
Not worth it when I can shoot 5 gr of it more accurately and safer

The 13.5 gr. Red dot load in a 30-06 is building much higher pressures than most shooters realize. I once read, maybe 45,000 psi. ???

I don't shoot that load in my rifles.

Ben
 
Last edited:

fiver

Well-Known Member
I forget we have outside people reading things here, or just doing a google search for the 'best", and they don't see the entire conversation spread out in a couple of different threads or see the previous comments from an earlier time leading up to the current comments.
they just click in lift the load details and move on with their day.
[I forget everyone can be an 'expert' if they got the latest hand held google machine or a video camera and a U-tube account]

anyway:
the point JW makes about a start in the rifling does make a difference.
I don't think too many give the pressure point from a bullet moving versus jammed into the rifling a second thought.

I know we discussed it in the XCB thread, and concluded even with the very low neck tension I was using the jam start [by letting the bolt closure do the final seating] was raising my start pressures somewhere in the neighborhood of 15-K.
not a bad thing when your dealing with a powder 2-3 steps too slow for the round with 90% case fill and need it to get a complete burn, but this is a completely different thing.
in fact the complete opposite and your actually trying to keep the pressures DOWN.
10-15grs. of a fast powder will still put pressures up high enough to start stressing some of the older rifle types, adding in another variable just keeps that trend going higher.