The 350 Legend

Jeff H

NW Ohio
A rebarrel or rebore would likely work with a number of guns, but my thinking is that I'd rather let Savage, Howa, Ruger or CZ work out the feeding bugs. Just because the new round has the same OAL and case head doesn't assure smooth and easy transition from magazine to chamber. I'm at a point in life where I'd rather shoot than work on guns.
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
that's what the issues were with the wildcat version.
I still have a couple of sample cases I made up with a 250gr bullet about 10 years back that fit perfectly in the AR magazines.
they even stripped out real slick, but could never get to the point of a barrel and stuff.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
looks like they are relying on case taper to help with head space.
a die cutter could cause someone a real headache and carbide size rings are gonna be out.
that right there will unsell a bunch of these, the AR guys wanna fling brass both in the reloading room and on the range.
 

Ian

Notorious member
.378" to .390" is a big jump in case head diameter. That's going to be a huge issue with people wanting to use .223/5.56 brass for reloads if they want any kind of accuracy. The case is going to shorten when it blows out, and it isn't going to blow out in a fashion concentric with the rim unless the old scotch tape trick is used, and that's a royal pain with the AR platform. I'm not liking where this went. At least they rammed it through SAAMI and made it open-source before releasing it, a concept proved out by AAC.
 

Ian

Notorious member
The 300 BLK has survived in a niche market in no small part due to the ability to utilize the buckets of .223 brass available at any roadside pull-out or shooting range, no neck turning ir fancy work required. I was hoping that would be the same for this with the addition of a neck-shoulder anneal.

I think Fiver is correct, the case was tapered so that it would have another mechanism to assist headspace. I didn't check the cas oal against .223 but i also suspect the enlarged head may be to prevent accidental chambering in .223 barrels?
 

Tom

Well-Known Member
These are 1.6", next to a 223. A larger base wouldn't be neccessary to prevent chambering in a 223.
15488227769648458683981386825340.jpg
 
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Jeff H

NW Ohio
........I didn't check the cas oal against .223 but i also suspect the enlarged head may be to prevent accidental chambering in .223 barrels?

2.26" COAL for the 223 according to Speer #14, so it's unlikely the 300 Legend, with all that extra girth up front would pose a hazard, but scrutiny of the dimensions may have saved me $650 to $700 on a new rifle.

Let's just say that it IS a flash in the pan - how long would brass be available? I admit that using cheap/available 5.56 brass was the deal-MAKER for me on the 300 BLK. I don't mind being the odd man out on the range, but I don't want to own a rifle I can't shoot for the rest of my life without worrying about where I'll find brass when the novelty wears off and no one else loves the cartridge anymore. History has shown that a cartridge doesn't need to be a dog to fall out of favor.

EDIT: Tom beat me to it with an excellent graphical representation of what I attempted to articulate in my first sentence.
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
there is always a way around stuff like that if there is a parent case available.[especially a longer one]
you could hydro-form a longer case easy enough, then come back and full length size to the bottom of the die and trim.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Meh. Gimme a 9x39 and some conversion mags, or heck, why not just get an AK and change the barrel? Or rebarrel a CMMG Mutant?
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
357 Herret . You have the luxury of using 30-30 as is , 22 NOS if you want it in a 223 base or 6.8 SPC for a full head dia . Mags are readily available for the 6.8 and 22 NOS and are direct use for the Herret rimless/rebated . It should work with a x39 bolt head also but without that one off limited bent x39 mag .

I'm all about simple .
 
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Jeff H

NW Ohio
357 Herret . You have the luxury of using 30-30 as is , 22 NOS if you want it in a 223 base or 6.8 SPC for a full head dia . Mags are readily available for the 6.8 and 22 NOS and are direct use for the Herret rimless/rebated . It should work with a x39 bolt head also but without that one off limited bent x39 mag .

I'm all about simple .

All good stuff and very intriguing, but I'm still hung up on the straight-wall thing for legal hunting, otherwise I wouldn't hesitate to go one of those alternate routes. I like simple too and really like the 35 caliber for cast.

My feelings aren't hurt too much (and my wallet even less) because I still have the 357 Max. but I'm watching this one with interest. I guess if Starline did make the brass, a box of 500 would last me the rest of my life.
 

Will

Well-Known Member
Jeff have you looked into mad dog weapon systems 357 maximum AR barrel?

If you don’t want to mess with all the neck turning on sized up 5.56 brass you can buy starling blank 223 brass which comes as a straight walled case.
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
Jeff have you looked into mad dog weapon systems 357 maximum AR barrel?

If you don’t want to mess with all the neck turning on sized up 5.56 brass you can buy starling blank 223 brass which comes as a straight walled case.

No. I'm looking at this as a potential bolt-action cartridge. Maybe even just as an excuse to own another CZ527 if I did some objective soul-searching. Even though I know better, I still do some irrational rationalizing.

Your idea on the brass is in line with what appealed to me initially and is not overly exotic for my current tolerance for handloading complexity. I've done a bunch of things over they years and have narrowed down what I'm willing to do at the bench to something more of a bare minimum.

BUT, unless I am looking at the dimensions wrong, the "350 Legend" has a case head diameter significantly larger than the case head of the .222 family of cases.

The 300 BLK wasn't something I needed (used it in a single-shot rifle) because I have a 30-30, but the cheap/easy brass suckered me into it. Had some fun with it and turned it into a 357 Max, which is fun AND I can hunt with it.

I've simply gone from ready to buy a rifle RIGHT NOW to spending some time ruminating a bit more as I weigh all the excellent points (yours especially) being presented by others.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I'm in the same boat.
had they come out with this 8-10 years back I would have been standing in line with a hand full of cash wanting a bolt gun and an AR, die set, 1-K pieces of brass and a 5-K count box of bullets.

now I'd be okay with one, looking for a 30X39 bolt rifle I like is more on my list though.
 

todd

Well-Known Member
this may have been done, but i got this from an excellent gunsmith(from his website).....i don't know if i'm allowed to put his website on here, moderators can you please tell me to do it or not?

i'll put his quote tho....
"

My sincerest apologies for the deletion of all the posts that were already here...

Reason being is that I just spent a couple of hours on the phone with guys from Winchester, and with all of the new things that I have learned today, misinformation was given, and some to the point that is would open up liabilities that I would not want to be responsible for...

So, with information that is now fact, and straight from the company who designed and developed the new 350 Legend cartridge, let's try this again...

Key Features of the 350 Legend Cartridge, as listed by Winchester -

More ENERGY than 30-30 Win, 300 Blackout and 223 Remington...

World’s fastest straight-walled cartridge...

Approximately 20% LESS RECOIL than the 243 Winchester...

20% more PENETRATION...

LESS RECOIL than the 450 Bushmaster...

Effective deer hunting ranges up to 250 yards, plus it delivers more energy than the 5.56mm, 300 Blackout or 30-30 Winchester...

This is a new case design and is NOT made from straight walled 223 Remington brass...

Compliant in states that allow straight wall cartridges for deer hunting...

2019 - 350 Legend Ammunition Offerings From Winchester:

350 Deer Season XP® 150 grain Extreme Point / 2,325 fps...

350 Super X® 180 grain Power-Point / 2,100 fps...

350 Hog Special 180 grain Power-Point / 2,100 fps...

350 USA White Box 145 grain FMJ Flat Nose / 2,350 fps...

350 Power Max Bonded® 160 grain Bonded JHP / 2,225 fps...

350 Super Suppressed™ 265 grain Open Tip / 1,060 fps...

The 350 Legend is rated at a s.a.a.m.i. maximum average pressure of 55,000 psi...

BORE/GROOVE is .346/.355........... Now knowing this information, I would NOT use .358 diameter bullets in a factory chambered rifle! Reason being is that the factory chamber is cut with a .357 diameter throat, then it tapers down to .355 (which is 9mm)...

Factory barrel's are 9mm and are NOT .357 or .358, but with the throating that Winchester is using, and using bullets of softer construction, those bullets can and do squeeze down in diameter to pass through the bore without issue!

New rifles or barrels offered through me, will have the correct 9mm bore and groove diameter and will be throated specifically for. 357 diameter bullets...

I should be able to tweak a few dimensions on the reamer to make it BETTER, since it is now s.a.a.m.i. spec'd reamer and the final dimensions have already been made...

Again, my apologies for the deletion of the other posts. Any questions, I will take them straight to the source and make sure that any and all answers are correct before posting..."