The 4" Fixed sight, L-frame

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
History is interesting. The Lockheed Super Constellation and the DC-7 were great planes but the jet age had arrived when they were developed. The great sailing ships gave way to steam. Typewriters to computers. The examples are endless. It has nothing to do with one type becoming extinct, we still have piston powered, propeller driven aircraft and sail boats are hardly a rare sight. It is the way in which that pinnacle is approached and then by economic necessity, eclipsed; that makes for fascinating history.

I have always been intrigued by the history of the S&W L-frame revolvers, particularly the 4", 581 & 681 models.
Everyone knows the developmental history of the magnum K-frames, there's no need to repeat it here. And everyone knows how the usage of the magnum K-frames changed over time. The magnum K-frame was an excellent idea but the conditions changed. By the late 1970's, S&W acknowledged that under heavy use of magnums, the K-frame was "A bridge too far" for that frame size.

So in 1980, S&W introduced the L-frames. What the customers got was an outstanding .357 magnum revolver that wasn't much larger than the K-frame. Maybe not DA revolver Nirvana, but getting pretty close.
Unfortunately, it also appeared in the twilight of the revolver era in American law enforcement. Just about the time we reached the pinnacle of the duty revolver, we reached the end of the LE revolver era.
It didn't happen overnight but by the mid 1990's, the shift from revolvers to pistols was just about complete.

1988 was the last year for the 581. The 681 made it to 1992. There were some special runs after that but for the most part, the fixed sighted, L-frame was out of production.
The adjustable sighted 686 models thrived in the civilian market and live on today; but the fixed sight, L-frame models became the Clipper Ships of the revolver world. The short lived pinnacle of their type to be replaced by changing technology in a changing world.
 
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CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
I have a fondness for fixed-sighted service sidearms. You all know about my fondness for heresies--stand by for another one.

ON DEFENSIVE SIDEARMS, ADJUSTABLE SIGHTS ARE SUPERFLUOUS.

I kick myself every time I think of the deeply-discounted pricing on the S&W Models 581 and 681 during the time those variants were in production. I was selling A LOT a L-frame S&Ws when those models first came out c. 1981-1986. I ordered all that my distributors could send, and sold every example within a week of arrival. NOT ONE OF THOSE SOLD had fixed sights--no one wanted them. I did, but didn't snag one when they were getting "spiffed" by distributors. FOOLISH. The production halt came at a time my career path changed radically and went into warp-speed (thanks in no small way to the cocaine/methamphetamine tsunami of the mid-1980s).
 

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Allen,
After I'd shot the new-to-me .45 ACP Randall a few times, and having drifted the rear sight a mite, I mentioned to the local gunsmith* I was thinking about installing an adjustable rear sight. He said one word, "Why?"

*40-years in the business, before retiring.
 
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Rick H

Well-Known Member
I happened to be one who would (and did) buy a 686 with adjustable sights over fixed. My first duty revolver was a Model 66 yep adjustable sights, I worked very hard to get the Novak fixed sights on my 1911 to hit point of aim.....was worth the effort. All were duty guns. I am a lefty. It is rare that I pick up a fixed sight handgun that I have not done sight work on that shoots anywhere near point of aim. I can accept it in a belly gun, but not a regular duty weapon. Adjusting/replacing fixed revolver sights is a daunting experience, (most autoloader not as bad).
I will not accept a duty gun that doesn't shoot to point of aim, adjustable sights are a big plus. I hear all the rumbling about how "Fragile" adjustable sights are.....let me just say NOT in my 50 years of carrying, shooting, rolling in the mud and beer in bar fights and yes using them in gunfights.....have I experienced a failure of adjustable sights. I did have a partner who broke off the front sight on his, but I guess that could happen on a fixed sighted gun too. A duty gun that you are betting your life on is no place for Kentucky windage.

I would not mind a fixed sighted revolver if it shot to point of aim, and if I never planned to change ammo.
 
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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I like fixed sights but that doesn't mean I dislike adjustable sights.
I do find it interesting that the fixed sight L-frames had such a relatively short production run. The reasons for that short run are no secret; they appeared right on the cusp of the widespread transition to pistols.

Obviously when there is a shift in technology the old technology becomes less popular. Sails to steam. Horses to cars, typewriters to word processing on computers, Steam locomotives to diesel. There are endless examples of those shifts.
What I find interesting is how short lived that last iteration of the old technology often is.

The Lockheed Super Constellation was an incredibly advanced airliner for a piston engine aircraft but It had a relatively short life as a front line plane.
Just about the time we got small tape players and small CD players, self contained digital media storage became common.
The last of the steam locomotives were huge leaps forward in that technology but they had some of the shortest service lives.

Had the fixed sighted L-frames come out in 1970, they still would have taken a back seat in sales to the semi-autos in when that transition occurred. But I find it interesting that some of the biggest pushes forward occur at the end of most eras and not earlier.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
This IS NOT a discussion about fixed sights verses adjustable sights. That debate will only devolve into a circular discussion and one that does not interest me.

This is about a version of the L-frames (581 & 681) that had a relatively short production run due to the changing times in which they were born into.

Prior to the introduction of the L- frames, the fixed sighted versions of the K-frames were produced in astounding numbers for decades.
When the fixed sighted L-frames appeared (alongside the adjustable sighted L-frames) they had a relatively short production run in comparison to their fixed sighted K-frame predecessors. No mystery there, pistols were replacing revolvers in those times.

The adjustable sight L-frame (686) lives on today but its fixed sighted siblings (581 & 681) died in childhood. The 581 only made it 8 years and the 681 made it 12 years. Shockingly short production runs when compared against the fixed sighted K-frames that proceeded them.
 

Rick H

Well-Known Member
I don't know how you separate the two. The reason the 581/681 died is they did not sell. The adjustable sight versions did and still do. Police agencies around me were issuing adjustable sight handguns in the early 60's. The only holdout for fixed sights was Detroit and they had a large inventory of 5" pencil barreled fixed sight Model 10's that they continued to issue until the switch to Glocks in the 90's. Most street officers opted to purchase their own service revolvers with.....adjustable sights.

Most of the fixed sight models came into being before there were adjustable sights, and there was a pretty active aftermarket gunsmithing business to correct that. Rather than being poor timing, I think if had more to do with shooters and users demanding the upper end sights. Large municipalities held out for fixed....because it saved them a considerable amount of money when purchasing several thousand handguns at a time. Smaller departments and officers who could purchase their own had switched over long before the move to autoloaders.

My point is, there was a very limited market for the fixed sight service revolvers. Once reasonably priced adjustable sight models started becoming available in great numbers in the 50's people wanted them. Yes the old models were still being made, but "once they saw Gay Paree you couldn't get them back on the farm again."
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Those are K-frames, complete with the 6 o'clock thinned forcing cone of the more popular Model 19 357s. If you stick to 158 grain SAAMI-level loads, they hold up quite well. The 110 and 125 grain loads will crack them pretty reliably.
 

Missionary

Well-Known Member
Have treated ours to cast only and pretty mild powder levels. Maybe running 38 SP +P levels.
If we need more we grab a 41
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
While examples of LE agencies that purchased adjustable sighted revolvers can certainly be found, the vast majority of LE agencies that purchased revolvers, specified fixed sights. There were lots of reasons for that but a few of them were: fixed sighted models were typically less expensive, it reduced the liability of Officer Goober "adjusting his sights", and they were tougher than adjustable sights (note I didn't say adjustable sights are fragile).

LE agencies didn't stop buying fixed sighted revolvers, they stopped buying revolvers all together. The 581 and 681 L-frames went out of production because the largest buyer stopped buying them. The adjustable sight 686 lived on because there was still a strong market for those models.

The shift to pistols didn't kill off the L-frames, just the fixed sight L-frames.
 
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CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Have treated ours to cast only and pretty mild powder levels. Maybe running 38 SP +P levels.
If we need more we grab a 41
They will last almost forever following that regimen. That course of conduct is firmly within the K-frame 357's wheelhouse.
 

John

Active Member
It is interesting to me that now the model 58 fixed sight 41 Magnum frequently outsells the 57, fancier, adjustable sight version by a large margin.
The 13 3" was valued with the same rise in value when the FBI had them and afterwards. Short enough barrel to draw fast, nothing to hang up while drawing and an easy sight picture. I had forgotten that the 581/681 has many of the same virtues.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I have always felt the the 3" RB model 13 was one of the few good ideas that the FBI ever had. I'm sure the use of the model by the FBI helped to boost sales in other places as well but it was a good concept on its own. A little easier to conceal & carry than a 4" model, decent sight radius, a good firepower to weight ratio for its day (still pretty good). The 3" model 13 & its stainless brother the 65 are excellent fighting tools.

As for the L-frames, once LE stopped buying revolvers, the fixed sighted L-frames were doomed.
S&W created an entirely new class of frames; the engineering and tooling alone must have been a massive investment.
I don't know what the final production numbers were for the 581 & 681 models but it must have been a bit disappointing for S&W.
The 686 continued to sell, so the addition of the L-frame line was a good investment but I bet they envisioned a longer run for the 581 & 681 models.