The dreaded Marlin jam

[Charles Graff]

Best way to jam a levergun is to short stroke the lever. Snap that lever fully forward and poof no more problem. I don't know what kind of game we are playing here, but my gut tells me it is another game. It irritates me when somebody thinks I am a fool. This entire thread is bogus and I think that should be evident to all by this time.

 

[Walks]

CG,
I think you're being a bit harsh. Both CW and I are Cowboy Shooter's of long experience, and Lever Action Shooters of longer experience. So I don't think short-stroking is the problem. I watched Cowboy Shooters switch over from Rossi 92's to the Marlin 1894CB's starting in 1996 with the introduction of the .45Colt. They really jumped on that wagon a year later with the intro of the .357mag. Cut down to 20" bbl the gamers were happy as a kid in a Candy store. The dreaded Marlin Jam made them start the switch to the italian 1873 clones. Too many inexperienced "action jobs".
This problem that CW has is not related to the dreaded Jam as I see it. I've tried to replicate His problem with all the .357loads that I have on hand.
Even seated a lone loose #358495 out to the bottom of top lube groove.
I think His problem is a fluke that none of us have had the misfortune to experience.

 

[Charles Graff]

CG,
I think you're being a bit harsh. Both CW and I are Cowboy Shooter's of long experience, and Lever Action Shooters of longer experience. So I don't think short-stroking is the problem. I watched Cowboy Shooters switch over from Rossi 92's to the Marlin 1894CB's starting in 1996 with the introduction of the .45Colt. They really jumped on that wagon a year later with the intro of the .357mag. Cut down to 20" bbl the gamers were happy as a kid in a Candy store. The dreaded Marlin Jam made them start the switch to the italian 1873 clones. Too many inexperienced "action jobs".
This problem that CW has is not related to the dreaded Jam as I see it. I've tried to replicate His problem with all the .357loads that I have on hand.
Even seated a lone loose #358495 out to the bottom of top lube groove.
I think His problem is a fluke that none of us have had the misfortune to experience.

I don't think so. This is the same guy that posted about a new Springfield 03A3 he had and had things incorrect. The thread drew on and on, with him arguing with the posters until at last, he admitted he knew all along what he had but he was just looking to see what others had to say. He passed it off as an attempt to learn. He played us once before and here he is again. This is how he gets his jollys. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Sorry boys, but I have been to this rodeo many times before and have a very good BS detector. I frankly don't believe him and if that hurts his or others feelers, then there we have it.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Grumble grumble..

Mr Graff,

You sir couldnt be more wrong and would much appreciate silence from you if you have nothing constructive to ad here.

No one it attempting to fool any one but your looking like one to me just now.

This is me bring nice,

CW

 

[Ian]

I just tore down one of my 336s and the cartridge follows the lever nose all tje way back to the cartridge stop on the lifter. The lever nose holds the cartridge rim against the notch in the loading gate until the lever is opened, then the cartridge pops back and follows the lever nose back...IT DOES NOT PASS THE LEVER NOSE AT ANY POINT. DO NOT GRIND ON THE LEVER YET.

 

[Ian]

Ok, I got it. The lifter is trying to come up too soon. The lifter is cammed up slightly by the lever to cut off the magazine when the lever is 80% back, but yours is trying to raise the lifter to cutoff just a tiny fuzz too soon...this is the exact OPPOSITE of Marlin jam.

Look at the interface between lever and carrier and cycle it with only those two parts in place. Watch the lifter raise to cutoff the magazine and see where you need to stone off a TINY amount of metal to delay the lifter lift to cutoff until the bullet nose is just barely free of the magazine tube .

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Yes I see it now. It appears controlled by the ramp/lever/cam on the lever near the fulcrum bolt. It lifts carrier just a bit (too much)
Now which to address first...

I can add weld and file if its bad. Just easier to "not have to"

Thank you!!

 

[Ian]

It isn't how much it lifts, it is WHEN it lifts. The cam will need to be moved slightly to change the magazine cut-off timing for full-SAAMI-length ammo. Don't remove too much or you will certainly have the jam.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

OK...

Couldnt wait... I first tried Ians suggestion on adjusting WHEN the lifter starts to lift. I can see I made a small change removing a very small amount to start. So need more here. Second trip to the files and dremil. WOW this lever is HARD!! So dremil made short work of removing steel. I ground back that bevel on the lever "dingus".

NOPE WRONG MOVE.

The length of that determines amount of lift, the lifter achieves. So now, it will not lift a cartridge high enough to feed into chamber.


Ill fire up the welder tomorrow after Dr visit.

CW

 

[Walks]

That's right CW, just keep beating your head against that brick wall. Eventually You'll get it right, if Your brains don't fall out first.
Yuk, Yuk, Yuk

 

[Ian]

Another perfectly good gun part ruined witH a DREMEL TOOL. Buy them books, send them to school, they still won't swipe, check, swipe, check with an India stone...

So, does your lifter have the spring-loaded hook on the left side? If so, the lever kicks behind that hook and lifts the cartridge on the FORWARD stroke (of the bolt) as the lever motion is reversed. The only thing the lifter does on the lever's opening stroke is raise just enough to cut off the magazine.

What I'm saying is the metal interfaces to lift the cartridge are completely different surfaces than the cartridge cut-off surfaces.

See the sharpie mark? That's where you move the curve back a few (like 5) thousandths.

 

[Ian]

By the way, if you took that step off the lever nose like I told you not to above, it likely won't hold cartridges in the magazine anymore.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

HAHA, Everyone seems to pick on them, as if everyone owning one is ham handed... Its simply untrue. Nothing ruined (yet) either.
Dremils are not at all bad... it is a tool. MISS-USE of one is whats bad.
A stone would have cut, but file ran right over the part. Its quite hard. There was a substantial chunk of material to remove... This was actually a nice application for a small grinder. Ill show pic before & aft weld fix, lil later today.
As for cam, I worked the lever not the lifter. Levers are available lifters are not. Also similar cost. Ill show this too.

 

[creosote]

I'll be very interested in where you added material back.

Mine doesn't lift high enough to line up with the chamber.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I'll be very interested in where you added material back. Mine doesn't lift high enough.

I havent done it yet. But Ill have some pics!

Here is a pic. This is a UNALTERED LEVER.

The Red circle shows where I removed material. This is where you would beed to add material. So you would want to make this bevel cut shorter adding material to bottom.
I removed about 3/16" and lever dropped in action a solid 3/16+ The longer this bevel is the lower the lifter will raise, so the shorter, the higher it raises.

So hope this helps.
Ill have more pics and comments as I actually complete this.

 

[creosote]

Thanks CW.

I took this picture a month or so ago.

This is at its highest point.

 

[Ian]

Brian, the part where you ground off metal has nothing whatsoever to do with your problem.

Not only are you working on the wrong part, you are working on the wrong interface point.

The step you took off is what holds the rim of the case against the loading gate and keeps cartridges in the magazine when the lever is closed.

Look at my photo above carefully and compare the same point on your lifter.

Dremels are dangerous in the hands of the wrong people. Yes.

 

[Ian]

Thanks CW.

I took this picture a month or so ago.

This is at its highest point.


View attachment 24679

Creosote, look at the spring-loaded hook on the rifle's left side of the lifter. That is what the lever nose clicks past at full-open and engages during the closing stroke to raise the lifter and present the cartridge to the chamber. Where those two parts meet is where you need to look for wear and to add metal.

 

[Walks]

Great Guys, thanks. Now I gotta dig the 1894's out the safe and play with them to really try to understand what's going on.
Glad I put them back in the FRONT of the safe yesterday.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Brian, the part where you ground off metal has nothing whatsoever to do with your problem.

Not only are you working on the wrong part, you are working on the wrong interface point.

The step you took off is what holds the rim of the case against the loading gate and keeps cartridges in the magazine when the lever is closed.

Look at my photo above carefully and compare the same point on your lifter.

Dremels are dangerous in the hands of the wrong people. Yes.

Well hell Ian, I know that, Now!!! Much like a Blister your coming with VALUEABLE information AFTER the task is complete!! We all found this out last night!! Timing my friend! Useful information Wednesday afternoon or Thursday morning, today, now well not as much. But most appreciated just the same!!

As for wrong part... I have already explained Lifters are Unobtanium. Levers are widely offered.

This knee strongly disagreeing with vertical movements. Maybe after ice..

CW