RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
No, new number is 358009, 295 grains.
The Ideal Cast Bullet Rifle
- Thread starter Rockydoc
- Start date
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Ian, the bear load is 42 grains of H4895 at about 2200 f/s, but it kicks to much for a old man shooting targets!
StrawHat
Well-Known Member
John G,
I had a 458 American built on a Remington 722. Mine had a 23” barrel, full mannlicher stock and a 1x4 scope. I had it built in the 70s. I loaded some jacketed stuff but mostly cast bullets between 300 and 450 grains. I do not recall specific loads or even powder but suffice it to say it was a lot more rifle than I needed in Ohio! Back then, I was not even thinking about traveling. Today, well a lot has changed.
Kevin
Glaciers
Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
Kevin,
Was your 722 a long action or short? I was somewhat unhappy with the 660 because I could not use round nose bullets in it. The Hornady 350 was my choice in the 458 mag and wanted to use it in the 660. But Barnes had the semi Spitzer, so I was good. I'm just now going to start with a cast LEE semi pointed bullet that with COWW weights out at about 480.
My experience with cast in the early 80's was with the Winchester Big Bore 375. Ran the Lyman 375449 GC bullet with a full throttle load of R7, which was quite impressive for me. Up until that point my casting experiences were a mixed bag. Of coarse I "knew" that if you got some leading, make that bullet harder.. I scrubbed some lead out of barrels, but that 375 was a perfect match for a guy who did not know what I did not know. I, just by luck, hit on a perfect combination of gun with gas checked cast bullets that preformed right. I got groups of 1 1/2" to 2" at 80 yards, while the best with jacketed 200, 250 silver tips was 3" plus at 80 yards, the Hornady 220 did about the same. But, 40 years ago I must have been much smarter than I am today.
Back to Rockdoc's question, that was a close to prefect cast gun. If I still had that gun, I would not be sending JES a 30-30 to be bored to 38-55. That Winchester BB had decent bullet weight at close to 280 gr, good diameter slug, in a fast handling fine looking rifle. The BB's before the angle ejection was a beautiful rifle. Can't warm up to the angle ejection Winchesters, even though I will admit I do own a trapper 30-30. But I keep it down a the shadowy end of the rack.
Now I've gotten to thinking about the perfect cast bullet lever gun. Now choosing the perfect cast lever, that's going to be tough..
Was your 722 a long action or short? I was somewhat unhappy with the 660 because I could not use round nose bullets in it. The Hornady 350 was my choice in the 458 mag and wanted to use it in the 660. But Barnes had the semi Spitzer, so I was good. I'm just now going to start with a cast LEE semi pointed bullet that with COWW weights out at about 480.
My experience with cast in the early 80's was with the Winchester Big Bore 375. Ran the Lyman 375449 GC bullet with a full throttle load of R7, which was quite impressive for me. Up until that point my casting experiences were a mixed bag. Of coarse I "knew" that if you got some leading, make that bullet harder.. I scrubbed some lead out of barrels, but that 375 was a perfect match for a guy who did not know what I did not know. I, just by luck, hit on a perfect combination of gun with gas checked cast bullets that preformed right. I got groups of 1 1/2" to 2" at 80 yards, while the best with jacketed 200, 250 silver tips was 3" plus at 80 yards, the Hornady 220 did about the same. But, 40 years ago I must have been much smarter than I am today.
Back to Rockdoc's question, that was a close to prefect cast gun. If I still had that gun, I would not be sending JES a 30-30 to be bored to 38-55. That Winchester BB had decent bullet weight at close to 280 gr, good diameter slug, in a fast handling fine looking rifle. The BB's before the angle ejection was a beautiful rifle. Can't warm up to the angle ejection Winchesters, even though I will admit I do own a trapper 30-30. But I keep it down a the shadowy end of the rack.
Now I've gotten to thinking about the perfect cast bullet lever gun. Now choosing the perfect cast lever, that's going to be tough..
Rally
NC Minnesota
Ric,
I bet in more than a few villages, there has been more than a few grizzlies shot with .30-30, and I'd bet it would take a couple trains to haul the Moose shot with the .30-30. I wouldn't choose it for either, given the choice, but still a pile of meat harvested with the .30-30 over the years.
That said, it would be a toss up for me. I have to carry it all day trapping and it has to be fur friendly. There aren't any grizzlies here nor do I have the intention of ever hunting them. I hunt mostly beaver, whitetail, coyote, and fox. I've shot 8 black bears, 6 with the .44 mag, (5 pistol, one rifle) and two with .30-06. It would definitely be a Marlin 336 rifle, but would be tough deciding between the .44 or .30-30. I probably will never apply for another bear tag, so even my .32-20 would work.
I bet in more than a few villages, there has been more than a few grizzlies shot with .30-30, and I'd bet it would take a couple trains to haul the Moose shot with the .30-30. I wouldn't choose it for either, given the choice, but still a pile of meat harvested with the .30-30 over the years.
That said, it would be a toss up for me. I have to carry it all day trapping and it has to be fur friendly. There aren't any grizzlies here nor do I have the intention of ever hunting them. I hunt mostly beaver, whitetail, coyote, and fox. I've shot 8 black bears, 6 with the .44 mag, (5 pistol, one rifle) and two with .30-06. It would definitely be a Marlin 336 rifle, but would be tough deciding between the .44 or .30-30. I probably will never apply for another bear tag, so even my .32-20 would work.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
For whitetail, a 31316 HP at 1600 f/s is good for a side ways lung shot.
Don't disagree Rally, Eskimos and Inuit's used 44/40's up to the 1930's on Polar bears, just not my first choice. .
Don't disagree Rally, Eskimos and Inuit's used 44/40's up to the 1930's on Polar bears, just not my first choice. .
Glaciers
Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
Ric the 25-20 was pretty popular also by a few of the natives up here.
A native friend uses a 243 for his moose getter, always has a successful hunt and a potlatch from time to time..
A friend tells a story of a Lady in one of the western villages, don't know which one, but the story goes that she was being bothered by a grizzly and that she had shot that bear the year before with her revolver. It turns out that she had cracked the door and reach out and popped it in the head. Said the bear took off and did not come back that year.
Well the bear was back, so she was asking Ken to please kill that nuisance bear. He was not sure about the bear being shot or if it was even the same bear. Well they found the bear in the village dump and kill him. Ken told me this story and that indeed it was the same bear. I was skeptical and said as much. Ken had just moved from Fairbanks to Valdez and there was boxes everywhere.. But he said he had proof it was the same bear the lady had shot. I asked how he was so certain about the bear. Said he was unpacking and getting settled, would not elaborate further, but would call me when he found the box containing the skull. Ken and I fished together a lot, he was doing deckhand duty from time to time.
Well a couple of weeks later Ken called saying I should come over, had something to show me. Well sitting in the middle of his coffee table was a decent size inland grizzly skull. Right between the eyes, slightly above the eyes was a lead bullet smashed almost flat. Bout the size of a large nickel.. It was soundly stuck to that skull. You could not see any cracking or anything other than that must have given that bear a serious headache..
Ken's had a lot of interesting experiences, but form that day forward I was never skeptical of his stories after that.
Glaciers
Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
I should point out that the use of the 25-20 was in Barrow, Kaktovik and other points along the northern coast for Polar Bears.
Speaking of the 30-30 a friend's wife shot a moose in the hoof and while painful the moose was still able to get around.. It was late January of 74 and the coldest winter I've ever experienced. Negative 70 in early January, still in the -40's at the time Barbara took her shot. She took her shot at night trying to hold a flash light and work the rifle. Little background here, they, Gary and Barbara lived in a cabin with their four kids, no power, no water, wood heat, very little food. None of us had much, I lost 20 pounds that winter and I was skinny to begin with.. At those temperatures cars did not start and nobody had phones. The Pipeline was just restarting and Gary had jus got a job up north.. It was my job to check on Barbara and the kids. It would take a couple of hours (there were tricks to keep the propane going ) to use a weed burner to preheat the truck. So Barbara's brother Dave and I would get a truck running and haul water jugs over and take her in to town to the Grocery story when someone came up with money.
Anyway back to the moose. When we got there the moose was still hanging around the cabin. Dave killed the moose with Barb's 30-30 and we went to work. Go inside warm up drink coffee, work on the moose. Had to go back and get a knife, stone and hand ax. Guy In a cabin down the road came by and pointed out our mistakes and offered that Barb should have used a 375 H&H that a 30-30 was not enough gun. I Mention that the moose was dead, had the hind quarters off and in the cabin, and that if you shot a moose in the hoof with a 375, the results would have been the same. We had to hurry at those temperatures even a moose will freeze solid.
We all shared the meat, it was a big help as Gary was the only one working and wasn't going to be paid for a couple of weeks. Lot of Mac & Cheese, and moose spaghetti.
So that was my first 30-30 kill, these folks were from Nacogdoches Texas and the 30-30 was the go to gun.
Speaking of the 30-30 a friend's wife shot a moose in the hoof and while painful the moose was still able to get around.. It was late January of 74 and the coldest winter I've ever experienced. Negative 70 in early January, still in the -40's at the time Barbara took her shot. She took her shot at night trying to hold a flash light and work the rifle. Little background here, they, Gary and Barbara lived in a cabin with their four kids, no power, no water, wood heat, very little food. None of us had much, I lost 20 pounds that winter and I was skinny to begin with.. At those temperatures cars did not start and nobody had phones. The Pipeline was just restarting and Gary had jus got a job up north.. It was my job to check on Barbara and the kids. It would take a couple of hours (there were tricks to keep the propane going ) to use a weed burner to preheat the truck. So Barbara's brother Dave and I would get a truck running and haul water jugs over and take her in to town to the Grocery story when someone came up with money.
Anyway back to the moose. When we got there the moose was still hanging around the cabin. Dave killed the moose with Barb's 30-30 and we went to work. Go inside warm up drink coffee, work on the moose. Had to go back and get a knife, stone and hand ax. Guy In a cabin down the road came by and pointed out our mistakes and offered that Barb should have used a 375 H&H that a 30-30 was not enough gun. I Mention that the moose was dead, had the hind quarters off and in the cabin, and that if you shot a moose in the hoof with a 375, the results would have been the same. We had to hurry at those temperatures even a moose will freeze solid.
We all shared the meat, it was a big help as Gary was the only one working and wasn't going to be paid for a couple of weeks. Lot of Mac & Cheese, and moose spaghetti.
So that was my first 30-30 kill, these folks were from Nacogdoches Texas and the 30-30 was the go to gun.
Missionary
Well-Known Member
Most any slug cast soft /GC with a flat nose from 32-20 up to 50 Alaskan give me good smiles and hunting memories.
Glaciers
Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
Don't get me started or I'll get going on the bear that got trapped inside my cabin and ate 10 pounds of rolled oats on top of my kitchen counter, then proceed to tear my cabin apart. Besides that all these guys here have stories, I'm just being lazy trying to get out of working on the projects that need to get done..
I've already hijacked Rockydoc's thread to much..
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
GREAT stories guys LOVE IT!!
CW
CW
StrawHat
Well-Known Member
The 722 is a short action. I don’t recall particulars but seem to recall having used flat points with radiused edges in it. Or flattened RNs. Like an upside down mason jar. Hit hard because I loaded them hot.
Today, I would take a Swedish Mauser and convert to 458 x 2”. The only reason I would opt for that instead of 450 Marlin is Magnum brass with the skinny belt is much more common than the Marlin brass.
OR,
Same Swedish Mauser with no alteration to the bolt face but bored and rifled at 40 caliber. The cartridge would be the 6.5 enlarged to hold the 40. Of all the projects I have in mind, that one might yet come to fruition.
I am 65 years young and have built or have had built a variety of “custom” rifles and revolvers. (Come to think of it, two 1911s but that is a topic for another thread.) They all served a purpose and served me okay or better. Some stayed, some went to other homes. I don’t see the need for another custom rifle but fortunately my life it not determined by what I need, more by what I want.
Mmmmm, now I need to remember where I put that Swedish action.
Kevin
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Glaciers
Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
Right, the 721 was the long action.
My 35 Whelen was a wildcat when I had it re-bored in the early 80's. Now it's standand, I'm happy with that. Built two other wildcats which are great, but, I've since gotten over that disease as there are so many good standard cartridges that end up being far cheaper.
My 35 Whelen was a wildcat when I had it re-bored in the early 80's. Now it's standand, I'm happy with that. Built two other wildcats which are great, but, I've since gotten over that disease as there are so many good standard cartridges that end up being far cheaper.
fiver
Well-Known Member
someone apologized for drifting a thread?
here?
that's a tradition, we usually have to struggle to make it to page 2 without thread drift coming into the picture.
it goes back to the original question eventually or sort of keeps coming back to it throughout, but drift is [shrug] just a fact of chit chat.
here?
that's a tradition, we usually have to struggle to make it to page 2 without thread drift coming into the picture.
it goes back to the original question eventually or sort of keeps coming back to it throughout, but drift is [shrug] just a fact of chit chat.
Ian
Notorious member
Just roll with it. Anyone who got their panties in a bunch about that sort of thing has long ago left us. The only time it's bothersome for someone to
Hey....is that a squirrel?
is if the topic is highly technical and a lot of hard work and testing is going into solving a problem. The rest of the time, some of the most interesting stuff to read comes along page 3+ when it's wandered a bit. The OP can always bring it back around if they want.
Hey....is that a squirrel?
is if the topic is highly technical and a lot of hard work and testing is going into solving a problem. The rest of the time, some of the most interesting stuff to read comes along page 3+ when it's wandered a bit. The OP can always bring it back around if they want.