The Interarms era Walther PPK

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
When it comes to pistols chambered in 380 Auto, own exactly zero at this point in my life. However, there was a time when I was very involved with the 380 Auto [AKA 9mm Kurz, 9x17, 9mm Browning Short, etc.]. In the late 1980’s and early 1990’s, the Walther PPK verses the SIG P230 debate was the firearm’s equivalent of the Gilligan’s Island, Mary Ann verses Ginger debate.

Avoiding the PPK/P230 debate for now, allow me to concentrate on the Walther PPK. We all know the history of the Walther PP and PPK models. We all know the effect of the 1968 GCA and the changes that resulted from that legislation, including the creation of the PPK/S and the domestic production of the PPK. A lot of folks see the “Interarms, Alexandria, Virginia” markings on Walther pistols and assume Interarms made the gun. That isn’t completely accurate. The guns were made for Interarms by U.S. based manufacturers. (Ranger being the most prevalent name). These Interarms era PPK pistols were the most encountered PPK pistols in the U.S. during the 1980’s and early 1990’s. Walther collectors can fill pages with all the pre-war and post war history of the Walther pistols but let’s keep this manageable.

The Interarms’ era PPK pistols broke down into two categories: those that functioned flawlessly from the start, and those that didn’t. I encountered both types. I owned both types, I saw other people with both types, I shot both types. For the life of me, I cannot fathom why some brand new Interarms era PPK pistols would function perfectly right out of the box and consistently shoot tiny groups while others were destined to be problem children. To be fair, I saw more that worked well than ones that didn’t. The old jokes about not wanting a car that was built on a Monday morning or Friday afternoon were applied to those guns. Maybe it was tooling wear? Maybe it was quality control? I don’t know. The ones that were good, were really good.

Later, Smith & Wesson got into the PPK game and that was a different situation altogether. The Interarms era PPK pistols represented an interesting time in history. The U.S. made PPK could be had in stainless steel, something not available in the older European made models. The U.S. made PPK got around the 1968 GCA import restrictions and most of the U.S. made PPK pistols were outstanding guns. The German, West German and French made Walther’s will always be a different part of the Walther family, but the Interarms’ era PPK pistols deserve their place in history.
 

Ben

Moderator
Staff member
So.........How does an individual KNOW if they are buying a good one or not ?

Ben
 

Thumbcocker

Active Member
Had a PPK/S in stainless for a while. Never did warm up to it. Didn't like the amount of recoil for what you got in return. Accuracy was meh.

Now a P P in .22 lr is a whole different story.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I sold my Walthers and my P230's and wish I had held onto the P230's ...
The PPK was a little easier to carry as a pocket pistol but the P230 was easier to shoot.
 

Walks

Well-Known Member
My PPK/S Stainless went down the road a long time ago. The Colt Mustang Plus 2 followed it, not even dies or a mold left. The French PP and Savage 1907 stayed because My Wife liked the PP and the Savage came from a old Friend's estate. And they both shoot P.O.I. at 50ft with some Bullseye under the #311252.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Once I had the East German Makarov in 1991, the 380 ACP really lost its luster for me. All of the 380s went down the road within a couple years, as did a few of the 32 ACPs.

My old shop authorized the Walther PP-series arms in 380, the SIG-Sauer P-230/232, and the Beretta 84/85. The SIGs and Berettas ran flawlessly with the approved ammo (Winchester Silvertips), but about 20% of the Walthers of all ages and finishes just flat refused to run on that HP ammo. Most of these balky guns ran fine on factory FMJs, But I could not conscience signing off on a deputy's carry system that was non-functional......I refused to do so, irrespective of rank. Most of the range folk had similar viewpoints, but not all. At the outset of our shift to autopistols, our classes emphasized that systems had to be failure-free, and that the System consisted of the user--the pistol--and the authorized carry ammo.
 

Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
My Dad's carry gun was a PPK/S. He bought it new and I still have it, along with the original plastic box/case, cleaning rod, factory target and paperwork. Both the box and the pistol have Interarms markings, but they are shown as an exclusive distributor. The pistol is clearly marked "Made in W. Germany".

So, not all the Interarms pistols were made by vendors in the US. And that could explain why some shot better than others. There have not been a lot of rounds thru my Dad's pistol, maybe a box. I probably should take it out when the weather warms up. Only have jacketed factory ammo so can't shoot indoors.

I was not a big fan of the pistol when I was younger. My carry gun was and still is a stainless Chief. I do like the Walther's ability to carry with one in the chamber and the hammer down. I always assumed that if I were in a situation where I needed a gun, if I had time to draw and rack the slide, I had time to escape or I could do neither. Both the Chief and the PPK/S would allow at least one shot from inside a pocket or coat with no action required other than pulling the trigger. The PPK/S is slimmer. But a second shot with a semi-auto is always a risk. Where a wheelgun is pretty much a guaranteed follow up shot or two. Not that I ever want to be in that situation.
 

oscarflytyer

Well-Known Member
I have a Walther PP in 32 ACP. One I always wanted! Love the thing and got it right from a buddy. I think it is a German gun. Would have to check the gun/box.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
My Dad's carry gun was a PPK/S. He bought it new and I still have it, along with the original plastic box/case, cleaning rod, factory target and paperwork. Both the box and the pistol have Interarms markings, but they are shown as an exclusive distributor. The pistol is clearly marked "Made in W. Germany".

So, not all the Interarms pistols were made by vendors in the US. And that could explain why some shot better than others. There have not been a lot of rounds thru my Dad's pistol, maybe a box. I probably should take it out when the weather warms up. Only have jacketed factory ammo so can't shoot indoors.

I was not a big fan of the pistol when I was younger. My carry gun was and still is a stainless Chief. I do like the Walther's ability to carry with one in the chamber and the hammer down. I always assumed that if I were in a situation where I needed a gun, if I had time to draw and rack the slide, I had time to escape or I could do neither. Both the Chief and the PPK/S would allow at least one shot from inside a pocket or coat with no action required other than pulling the trigger. The PPK/S is slimmer. But a second shot with a semi-auto is always a risk. Where a wheelgun is pretty much a guaranteed follow up shot or two. Not that I ever want to be in that situation.
There's a reason behind that "Made in W. Germany" marking on a PPK/S. The PPK didn't meet the points needed for the import requirements under the 1968 Gun Control Act, so the PPK/S was created. That was a PPK slide and barrel mounted on a PP frame. The resulting gun did score enough points to be imported into the U.S.A. by Interarms.
Later, Interarms arranged for domestic production of the PPK. When the PPK was made in the U.S.A., it was no longer an import. The PPK/S models continued to be imported along with PP models.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Once I had the East German Makarov in 1991, the 380 ACP really lost its luster for me. All of the 380s went down the road within a couple years, as did a few of the 32 ACPs.

My old shop authorized the Walther PP-series arms in 380, the SIG-Sauer P-230/232, and the Beretta 84/85. The SIGs and Berettas ran flawlessly with the approved ammo (Winchester Silvertips), but about 20% of the Walthers of all ages and finishes just flat refused to run on that HP ammo. Most of these balky guns ran fine on factory FMJs, But I could not conscience signing off on a deputy's carry system that was non-functional......I refused to do so, irrespective of rank. Most of the range folk had similar viewpoints, but not all. At the outset of our shift to autopistols, our classes emphasized that systems had to be failure-free, and that the System consisted of the user--the pistol--and the authorized carry ammo.
/\ Agree completely. /\

The first and primary criteria is the gun must function reliably.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
I have the same complaint with the PPK that I have with J-frame S&Ws--not enough grip to manage the recoil with. The PP frame length and the mag baseplate finger-hook combine with Pachmayr panels to make the 32 ACP PP (1964, German made) behave very well and shoot accurately. I shot several PPK/S in 380, and when they ran well they were quite shootable. I spent quite a bit of time and several memos up the chain to describe the Walther issues on the range.

I don't have enough research to support this belief, but my thought has been that the Walther PP-series' biggest problem with functioning was the weak-sistered ammunition that American ammomakers insist upon feeding European guns. I still wonder if those balky 380s would have straightened up and flown right if fed full-power Euro ammo like RWS, GECO, or Fiocchi. Dunno.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, when dealing with "pocket guns" you can have easy to conceal or easy to shoot, but you can't have both.

Those short grips are the price you pay for a small overall sized gun.
For the the J-frame Smith's, I find the classic boot grip or a Tyler T-grip to be the only acceptable solution. Any grip that makes the gun itself bigger and you might as well step up to a 2" K-frame.
In terms of shooting, I always liked the Walther PP frames over the PPK frames. The slightly longer grip of the PP makes a huge difference. A Walther PP is a lot like a Colt 1903, there's just enough gun to hang onto. In terms of deep concealment, the PPK gets the nod, despite the increased difficulty in shooting them.

As for functioning, I strongly suspect you're right about feeding European guns with American ammo being a part of the problem.
 
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Thumbcocker

Active Member
Mine said pp on the box and gun. No loaded chamber indicator since it was a rimfire. I think the TPH was a different critter.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
I have owned a couple PP pistols in 22 LR. GREAT PISTOLS! They require good-quality HV ammo to run reliably--CCI Mini-Mags, both HP and solid ran 100%, which is saying something for 22 LR pistols.

I had a stainless TPH for about 3 years. I wore it underneath my front armor plate, on a neck chain or in my right front trouser pocket. It had a tiny grip, but the light recoil enabled my middle and ring fingers to control it fairly well. It also required good ammo (CCI M/M). Concentration was required to hit at distance with the D/A trigger stroke, but if I did my part the rounds went where the sights looked. Just for grins one quals day, 3 of us running the range tried to "qualify" with that micropistol. 3 yards to fifteen yards, we all shot "possible" (B-27 '8-bottle', with 2 'Mozambiques'). I sold it when Walther stopped supporting it with spare mags and parts about 18-20 years ago, and that turned into a bidding war on Day 1. Crazy!
 

Thumbcocker

Active Member
I took mine squirrel hunting a few times. It would hit whatever was sitting on top of the front sight at 15 yards with Remington gold hollow points. I got a few with it.