The SIG P230 - A Look Back in Time

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
In today's world we have an amazing selection of small pistols for self-defense. Many of them incorporate locked breach systems and are as small, if not smaller, than what was previously available in a simple blowback design.
HOWEVER, it wasn't that long ago when a 380 Auto was the largest cartridge that you could typically find in a true "pocket pistol".

Back in the days when the 380 Auto was the small pistol cartridge, one gun, the SIG P230, stood out from the pack.

Some people claimed the P230 was simply SIG's version of a Walther PPK. I'm not sure I agree with that.
Some folks said the P230 was overpriced. It wasn't cheap but it wasn't out of reach for most.
Some would say that the P230 was just another little pistol. I think it deserves a bit more credit.

In the late 1980's and early 1990's there just weren't that many DA/SA small pistols available. The Walther PPK was well established and clearly an excellent pistol. There were the Walther look-a-like pistols such as the Bersa, FEG, Springfield auto and few others. There were a few other designs such as the AMT 380 but that was about it if you wanted DA.

The SIG P230 was the other choice in a DA/SA pistol chambered in 380 Auto or 32 ACP.
The P230 had a grip that was a little fatter than the PPK and that made it easier to shoot and only slightly more difficult to conceal.
It had an excellent DA trigger and very good sights.
The heel type magazine release ensured that when you REALLY needed that ONE magazine to be securely locked in the gun - it would be there. This wasn't a gun that would likely ever be reloaded under stress.
The de-cocking lever meant that the gun could be rendered safe but pulling the trigger when a live round was chambered always resulted in a shot being fired. You couldn't inadvertently put the gun in a non firing mode.
The exterior contours were about as "snag proof" as you could get. Even the exposed hammer was almost entirely shrouded by the slide.
The gun was easy to field strip and clean.
The materials and workmanship were top notch.

On top of those features, you got a very reliable pistol that was extremely accurate.

The P230 was the Queen of its day.
 
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Outpost75

Active Member
The SIG P230 was a backup gun of choice for the British SAS and also the FBI Hostage Rescue Team, commonly carried in a chest pocket under the body armor with one mag in the gun plus one reload. I have P230s in both .380 and .32 ACP. The .32 ACP has a thumb safety.
P230vsPP 002.jpg

P230-765ThumbSafety.jpg
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I had a couple of P230 pistols but sadly, they went away.
In their day, They were the crème de la crème of small SD pistols.

Outpost - I've never seen a SIG P230 with a manual safety. That's interesting. Not sure why one would be desirable but I guess someone wanted that.

Interesting tidbit about the blued P230 pistols - They had alloy frames and the stainless steel ones had steel frames.
 
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CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
My shop authorized the 380 ACP as of 1994, the Beretta 84/85, the Walther PP-series, and the SIG-Sauer P-230/232. The P-230s were by far the most popular of the 380s carried by our folks, and they were limited to off-duty and plainclothes venues. The P-230 is a superb pistol, at least equal to the German-made PP-series and the Berettas. The USA-made Walther 380s had a rep for stoppages on the quals courses and at least once during a bank robbery just west of my county where an off-duty officer got "made" by the suspect (a regular customer of the gendarmerie) and an exchange of finality commenced. Cop's PPK/S stoppaged, crook's shots missed, so "Off-setting penalties/Down goes over". It's a shame that the officer didn't have a P-230 instead to that PPK/S; the world might have been improved by removal of that predator. Alas, we will never know. Crook was arrested shortly thereafter, and SURPRISE OF SURPRISES the U.S. Attorney in L.A. actually took the bank shot Federally, and the perp did 20+ years of Federal custody.

That incident got a lot of media play, and the next quals period showed a lot fewer Walthers and a few more P-230s showing up. I had a P-230 for about 5 years, and it was my last 380 ACP. It ran FLAWLESSLY, and was not fussy in the least about feed reliability. Cast, FMJ, JHP, it didn't care--it said "Just shoot me". To me it was just a fun gun, it wasn't authorized for work use during the time I owned it (1988-1993), and I have never really trusted the 380 ACP to put down anything bigger than jackrabbits decisively. I was part of several shooting investigations in which the 380 ACP was star of the show, all but one victim survived--and that guy was a suicide to the right temple (not to mention a net gain to society, the meth-slinging hairball). It worked that time.

Between the flawless reliability of both my 1964 West German Walther PP in 32 ACP and the EXCELLENT East German Makarov in 9 x 18 Mak, the SIG P-230 was a great pistol but kind of superfluous to my needs. It went down the road in mid-1993 for good money, and OF COURSE 6 months later the Department did its GREAT CALIBER EXPANSION OF 1994--, adding the 380 ACP, 357 Magnum, and 40 S&W on Jan. 1. It is decision quality of this sort that keeps me from investing in stocks or visiting Las Vegas.

Would I have carried the P-230? Probably not. Then and now, my "floor" caliber was/is 9 x 19, and only selected Euro-level loads.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
There's a large PD here in Virginia that for some time was very paramilitary and not very flexible in their policies. They authorized only two handguns for off-duty/back-up weapons: Any type of 2" S&W J-frame chambered in 38 Special, and the SIG P230. They have since lightened up a bit in their thinking. The inclusion of the P230 on that short list was likely due to the fact that they issued P220 pistols at the time and they trusted SIG's.

My experience with the 380 Walther's has been they are either 100% reliable from the beginning or they are not. Within a few hundred rounds you knew for certain if that particular Walther would be absolutely reliable or not to be trusted. In full disclosure, that was with the Interarms models and not the West German versions.
The SIG P230's were always 100% guns.
The SIG P230 had a "fat" grip that was a pleasure to shoot but a tad more difficult to conceal than the PPK.

I have owned Walther PPK pistols, SIG P230's and even an original Remington Model 51 in 380 Auto. The SIG P230 was by far the best of the small self-defense pistols chambered in 380. The Walther PPK was good IF you had a good one. The DA trigger on the SIG was far better in my opinion. There was no safety on the SIG that could inadvertently be engaged and little chance of the magazine becoming unseated during rough activity. I think the SIG was a better combat gun.
 

Rick H

Well-Known Member
My sole experience with 380's was/is an OMC Backup (same gun but predates the AMT). Solid, reliable, accurate, single action gun with an awkward long throw safety. I carried it for what it was intended for, back up to the duty weapon. Gave up on that notion after a couple of years. I still have it. All Stainless, heavy and a real pain to detail clean, but I can hide it in the palm of my hand, or a pocket and it is surprisingly accurate with the fixed barrel. It digests cast RN, RFP and factory fodder with nary a hitch.
Mostly it was an inside the waistband summertime carry gun that met (just barely) the requirement to be armed.
 

Outpost75

Active Member
...Outpost - I've never seen a SIG P230 with a manual safety. That's interesting. Not sure why one would be desirable but I guess someone wanted that.


I was told the Japanese Police wanted the thumb safety, but mine is an Exeter, NH marked US commercial gun.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Interesting.

I wonder if U.S. manufacture of that particular model was to get around some arms export law ?

And putting an additional manual safety on a DA gun that has a de-cocking lever seems rather redundant to me.
 

Rick H

Well-Known Member
Features necessary for importation to the USA. An interesting read. Wonder why so many silly features are found on imported firearms?

Federal Handgun Importation Criteria​

WEDNESDAY, JULY 28, 1999


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In 1968, Congress enacted the Gun Control Act, which included provisions relating to the importation of firearms. As amended, one provision [Title 18 U.S.C. §925(d)(3)] provides that?
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"The Secretary [of the Treasury] shall authorize a firearm or ammunition to be imported or brought into the United States or any possession thereof if the firearm or ammunition . . . is of a type . . . generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes. . . ."

During hearings of Subcommittee Number 5 of the House Committee on the Judiciary in April 1967, the Commissioner of Internal Revenue, Sheldon S. Cohen, explained that the provision "would not, and I emphasize, would not, preclude the importation of good quality sporting type firearms or of military surplus rifles or shotguns particularly suitable for or adaptable to sporting use."
Soon after the 1968 Act, what is now the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF), Treasury`s agency with regulatory authority over firearm issues, adopted "Factoring Criteria" to be used to determine whether a given handgun is eligible for importation under 925(d)(3). Under the criteria, a handgun must meet certain "prerequisites" and achieve a sufficient number of points under a "point system" which awards points based upon a handgun`s overall length and height (pistols) or frame length and barrel length (revolvers), weight, caliber, frame construction, safety-related features, and miscellaneous equipment such as target sights and grips.
Despite the "sporting language" in 925(d)(3), BATF`s criteria are in some respects weighted against handguns with well-established sporting credentials. As examples, the fact that a handgun uses .22 caliber ammunition earns it relatively few points, though more target shooting is done with .22 caliber handguns than with those of any other caliber. A pistol receives 10 points for having a double-action trigger mechanism, though single-action pistols dominate many long-established target shooting activities. A pistol receives points for having a target trigger and external hammer, though most .22 caliber pistols designed for target shooting do not possess external hammers.
"Gun control" supporters incorrectly claim that the criteria prohibit the importation of only unsafe and relatively inexpensive handguns, which they incorrectly imply are one and the same. (Many relatively inexpensive handguns perform well in durability tests.) As noted, however, "safety features" are but one category addressed in the criteria. Indeed, due to the criteria`s emphasis on the size of a handgun, some handguns with well-established reputations for quality of design and manufacture, such as the relatively expensive Walther PPK, are prohibited from importation. A handgun`s sale price is not a factor determining its eligibility for importation.
Based upon their false assumptions, "gun control" supporters have proposed to adopt the criteria as a rule governing the manufacture of handguns in the U.S. Separately, they have proposed that handguns or, alternately, firearms, be prohibited from manufacture in the U.S. if they would be prohibited from importation for any reason. Among the reasons for opposing such a measure, the BATF does not consistently adhere to the criteria. When directed to do so by the Administration, the BATF has ignored the criteria to prohibit the importation of certain handguns. Further, BATF has never formally adopted criteria for rifles and shotguns and, when directed by the Administration, has prohibited the importation of rifles and shotguns that it had previously approved for importation. Ironically, in 1986, Congress enacted the Firearms Owners Protection Act, which, among other things amended 925(d)(3) to prevent precisely this kind of arbitrary decision-making. Prior to the 1986 Act, the Secretary was permitted to authorize the importation of firearms meeting the federal standard; the 1986 amendment mandated that "the Secretary shall authorize the importation" of eligible firearms. (Emphasis added.)
There are two sections to the factoring criteria, and a handgun must satisfy the requirements of both sections to be eligible for importation.
I. Handgun Size and Safety "Prerequisites"
Pistols:
A pistol must have (1) a combined length "not less than 10" with the height . . . at least 4" and the length being at least 6" and (2) "a positive manually operated safety device."
Revolvers: A revolver must (1) have a frame "of 4 1/2" minimum [and] a barrel length of at least 3" and (2) pass a "safety test" consisting of what is commonly referred to as a "drop test."
II. The "Point System"

Pistols:
A pistol must earn at least 75 points from the following characteristic areas:
Overall Length For each 1/4" over 6", 1 pt.
Frame Construction If investment cast or forged steel, 15 pts.; if investment cast or forged HTS alloy, 20 pts.
Weight One pt. per ounce; most pistols weigh between 15-40 ounces.
Caliber If between .22 LR and .380 ACP, three pts.; if 9mm or larger, 10 pts.
Safety Features Firing pin block or lock, 10 pts.; locked breech, loaded chamber indicator and magazine safety, 5 pts. each; grip safety, 3 pts.
Misc. Equipment Double-action mechanism, 10 pts.; click adjustble target sight, 10 pts.; drift adjustable target sight, five pts.; target grips, five pts.; target trigger and external hammer, two pts. each.

Revolvers: A revolver must earn at least 45 points from the following characteristic areas:
Barrel length For each 1/4" over 4", 1/2 pt.
Frame construction If investment cast or forged steel, 15 pts.; if investment cast or forged HTS alloy, 20 pts.
Weight One pt. per ounce. Most revolvers weigh between 15-50 ounces.
Caliber If .22 LR and .30 to .38 S&W, three pts.; if .357 Mag. or larger, 5 pts.
Misc. Equipment Adjustable target sights, five pts.; target grips, five pts.; target hammer and trigger, five pts.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I wasn't speaking about U.S.A. Import/Export laws. I'm familiar with the requirements of the 1968 GCA.
I was speculating about Germany (then West Germany) and Japan import/export laws of the time.
 
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RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
"The gun was made in West Germany and imported to New Hampshire and then was intended for the Japanese order;. But that doesn't make sense either. Why not just send it directly to Japan?"

Production run was larger than the order number to allow for test guns, rejects and spare parts. When the contract was completed, what ever was left for assembled for commercial sales. At least this was common with S&W LE contracts.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I don't know WHAT the circumstances were, I am just speculating.

Outpost75 said he had a P230 in 32 ACP that had a manual safety and was marked Exeter, New Hampshire. He also spoke about a Japanese police order for that pistol.

I understand that perhaps not all of the pistols from that order made it to Japan, there are often overruns in any production run.

Maybe the pistol did make it to Japan and later, back to the U.S.
OR
The gun was made in West Germany, imported to New Hampshire and wasn't included in the guns shipped to Japan
OR
That particular gun was never intended for Japan
Or any other possibility
 
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CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Not sure about that. Some interesting history on the pistol series on Wikipedia. Google them up. There is an inference in that site's text that implies they were only made in Germany, FWIW.
 
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Charles Graff

Moderator Emeritus
Thanks to James Bond, I bought my first PPK (380) in 1965. It was German made and I carried it allot, albeit illegally in Texas at the time. I had it with me, the only time I need to draw and point a gun. The issue was resolved without pulling the trigger. I lost that pistol in the Great D-Vorce of 95. When the dust settled in 95 I bought a new SS PPK by Interarms and it was a good one. About three years ago, I gave it to my granddaughter along with a PP in 22 LR.

About 15 years ago, I bought a SIG P239 (9mm). I still have it. It packs the punch of a larger service pistol in a small package and is easy to shoot. I carried it for about 12 years and still like it very much.

I have shot a few P230s and think highly of them.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I've owned both Walther PPK pistols and SIG P230 pistols, they were both excellent guns.
The PPK is slightly easier to conceal but that small size drove production to the U.S.A. after the 1968 GCA.

The P230 was just big enough to make the import requirements (I think they called that small bump on the grip a "thumb rest").
The P230 was more on par with the PP in terms of size. The DA trigger on the P230 was very good for a SD pistol. I always found the P230 to be easy to shoot and quite accurate for a small SD pistol.

When the small, locked breach, 9mm pistols began to appear on the scene, the 380 Auto P230 had serious competition in the small pistol arena.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Some of the later-arrived 380 ACPs had locked-breech actions as well. The Colt Government Model 380 (from the mid-1980s) was one such example. They were decent pistols, but that fold-down ejector was a stupid innovation. The 1911-esque ejectors work just fine, why Colt didn't just do that is beyond me. If that spring-loaded fold-down ejector got pushed downward too far, it was a PITA to reach and reset.

The sub-compact 9mm pistols now at large in the market have rendered the 32/380 a little obsolete.
 
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