CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
Per capita, San Bernardino rivals Chicago in homicide rate per 100K population. Moreno Valley and Perris (garden spots in my old duty county) keep right up. Always a party.
The Snubnose option
- Thread starter Petrol & Powder
- Start date
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Thank you abj, that is on track for what I was asking.
358156 hp
At large, whereabouts unknown.
We're living the Chinese Curse these days for sure. "May you live in interesting times".
Be safe...
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Does anyone know when the Taurus Model 85 was first imported into the U.S. ?
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
I never REALLY liked snub nose revolvers. At least DA revolvers. I do appreciate a birds head 3" ish SAA or clone. 
But short autos I dont mind at all. They carry better other wise whats a short barrel for?
The longer barrels shoot easier, handle recoil better and over all easier and more enjoyable to shoot.
Short autos are usually thinner or being Mostly same thickness are much more comfortable to carry. Also without that cyl gap, have lil better ballistics all things equal. If I had to explain farther Id say that cyl was the culprit. It makes the gun less comfortable for me. I have been a large man most of my adult life. I graduated HS @ 260# with a 33" waiste.@ 40 I was closer to 300 with a 42".... fifteen ish years later im about 220 and 34" waiste... Inside the pants carry has been something I could only find comfortable for the last ten or so years.
I have owned a couple snubs and tried carrying them but gave up. The G23 I like is a touch large IWB. PERFECT OWB. Then I bought a lil G42. Wow effortless carry. Shortly after a Shield45 and I had it perfect!! This thing is a dream for Me IWB and I barely Feel it there. Short bbl and 45 ACP. Shoots my loads like a laser and Cheap green/White Remmy 230 HP 900+ and I can hit a cantaloupe all day past 50/60 yards off hand.
I did own a Ruger SpeedSIX 357-2 3/4" that would do better then that off a bench @ 100 with Silvertips!! But what a lead weight!!
Guess thats what makes the world rotate, if was was all same how boring would we be!!
cW
But short autos I dont mind at all. They carry better other wise whats a short barrel for?
The longer barrels shoot easier, handle recoil better and over all easier and more enjoyable to shoot.
Short autos are usually thinner or being Mostly same thickness are much more comfortable to carry. Also without that cyl gap, have lil better ballistics all things equal. If I had to explain farther Id say that cyl was the culprit. It makes the gun less comfortable for me. I have been a large man most of my adult life. I graduated HS @ 260# with a 33" waiste.@ 40 I was closer to 300 with a 42".... fifteen ish years later im about 220 and 34" waiste... Inside the pants carry has been something I could only find comfortable for the last ten or so years.
I have owned a couple snubs and tried carrying them but gave up. The G23 I like is a touch large IWB. PERFECT OWB. Then I bought a lil G42. Wow effortless carry. Shortly after a Shield45 and I had it perfect!! This thing is a dream for Me IWB and I barely Feel it there. Short bbl and 45 ACP. Shoots my loads like a laser and Cheap green/White Remmy 230 HP 900+ and I can hit a cantaloupe all day past 50/60 yards off hand.
I did own a Ruger SpeedSIX 357-2 3/4" that would do better then that off a bench @ 100 with Silvertips!! But what a lead weight!!
Guess thats what makes the world rotate, if was was all same how boring would we be!!
cW
358156 hp
At large, whereabouts unknown.
True. Things have been seen that can't be unseen. Or ignored.
I figure I've had all the warnings I'm going to get. Situational awareness is a very real thing for me.
FrankCVA42
Active Member
Bought a Model 36 when Louisiana first started with it's concealed carry license's. Has a lot of miles on it. Probably has about 500 rounds through it. But as times changed down here went to a S&W M&P 2.0 in 9mm. Bravo concealment IWB holster and spare mag in the pocket. I seriously don't even remember seeing a Taurus revolver in any caliber either at a dealers table at a gun show or seen one at our range. My 44 specials are all N frames two 24-3's and one 624 with the 6.5" barrel. Frank
462
California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
For many years I worked in my county's gangbanger capitol, and secreted, albeit illegally, a S&W Model 49 in my car and truck. Then, in one of my downsizing episodes, I sold it to a CHP as a backup (at the time he was Arnold's bodyguard.). Eventually, he found something more to his liking and sold it to another CHP.
Anyway, that was long before I got my carry license, and though there are times I regret selling the gun, I'd be very hard pressed to ever consider any revolver to replace the Glock 27 I carry.
The 2 1/4" .357 SP-101 has been relegated to the safe, and is quite comfortable and happy there.
Edit to add: At the time of the Model 49 purchase, Taurus 85s were the local rage and at least half the price of that very lightly used Model 49. Never saw a Charter Arms till a couple months ago, just after the lifting of the state's original Chinese flu house arrest, and it was a consignment gun.
Anyway, that was long before I got my carry license, and though there are times I regret selling the gun, I'd be very hard pressed to ever consider any revolver to replace the Glock 27 I carry.
The 2 1/4" .357 SP-101 has been relegated to the safe, and is quite comfortable and happy there.
Edit to add: At the time of the Model 49 purchase, Taurus 85s were the local rage and at least half the price of that very lightly used Model 49. Never saw a Charter Arms till a couple months ago, just after the lifting of the state's original Chinese flu house arrest, and it was a consignment gun.
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Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
462 wrote: ".....At the time of the Model 49 purchase, Taurus 85s were the local rage and at least half the price of that very lightly used Model 49. Never saw a Charter Arms till a couple months ago, just after the lifting of the state's original Chinese flu house arrest, and it was a consignment gun. "
That's interesting, it tends to support the continued existence of a regional preferences.
That's interesting, it tends to support the continued existence of a regional preferences.
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
One good friend is a retired law enforcement officer. Halfing his carreer with Revolvers and Autos. Saw and was involved in shootings working in Big city Texas and another state.
As a boy, my pop had a Ilama 380 he used for a garden gun. I watched him shoot rabbits, a critter pretty easy to kill run off with a 90g fmj hole. He used ta say no worries, I dont have ta burry them ta cant eat rabbits in summer... they fulla worms. Then one year we had hords of wood chucks. I was old enough to have a 22 rifle and did my best to clear the fields! Pop shot a couple with the 380 and they WENT BACK TO EATING!! Pop traded that 380 at the feed store for a Colt Diamond Back 38!! He also bought a wad cutter mold and cast his bullets and pan lubed them. THESE killed chucks much better. But to me the caliber was not really any better, just shot a better bullet. (Beginnings of my understandings of bullet diameter and killing power)
Any how my friend confirmed my suspicions of the 38 as a defensive round when I herd a few stories and learned his partner was killed when the bad guy took a few 38 bullets yet was able to return fire lethally.
Pop liked his 38. I like the gun not the caliber.. Today I have one 38... Pops ol Diamond back.
cw
As a boy, my pop had a Ilama 380 he used for a garden gun. I watched him shoot rabbits, a critter pretty easy to kill run off with a 90g fmj hole. He used ta say no worries, I dont have ta burry them ta cant eat rabbits in summer... they fulla worms. Then one year we had hords of wood chucks. I was old enough to have a 22 rifle and did my best to clear the fields! Pop shot a couple with the 380 and they WENT BACK TO EATING!! Pop traded that 380 at the feed store for a Colt Diamond Back 38!! He also bought a wad cutter mold and cast his bullets and pan lubed them. THESE killed chucks much better. But to me the caliber was not really any better, just shot a better bullet. (Beginnings of my understandings of bullet diameter and killing power)
Any how my friend confirmed my suspicions of the 38 as a defensive round when I herd a few stories and learned his partner was killed when the bad guy took a few 38 bullets yet was able to return fire lethally.
Pop liked his 38. I like the gun not the caliber.
. Today I have one 38... Pops ol Diamond back. cw
Outpost75
Active Member
I would agree. A retired cop mentor of mine once referred to the Charters as "the Yugo of off-duty guns." Maybe their quality is better now.
A factor which I think speaks volumes is that I do not know a single working professional gunsmith who will work on either a Charter or a Taurus.
I cannot speak to how well the companies back up their warranties or the quality of repairs and customer service. I have no trouble finding several gunsmiths who do excellent good work repairing even 100-year-old Colts and S&Ws.
I just wonder how many Charters and Taurus revolvers will still be in use 100 years from now?
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
Real good point, Outpost. And "The Yugo of off-duty guns" says volumes. My old shop utterly refused to authorize either Charter Arms or Taurus revolvers for any usage covered by their sworn personnel's carry permits. During my work years--when there was always too much month left at the end of the money--I wouldn't spend those scarce pesos on a sidearm I couldn't carry at work, with few exceptions. So C/A and the Tauri stayed off my radar. I suspect that Ruger's LCR-series will drive stakes through the hearts of the mid-quality gunmakers in this country. They are ugly as a Monday hangover, but the things work well and don't cost the earth. Kinda following Glock's lead, it would appear. America WILL buy an ugly gun priced right that runs well.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
I agree every word you wrote and even think the comment that a Charter Arms revolver is "the Yugo of off-duty guns" is not too far off the mark.
However, the point of this entire thread is not to compare the quality of a S&W to a Charter Arms or Taurus revolver but rather to examine the regional preferences for Charter Arms & Taurus revolvers, specifically the Undercover and the model 85.
There is no doubt that in terms of quality there is a gulf between S&W and its lower cost competitors. (although I have seen some Taurus model 85's hold up over the years).
Cost can be a factor and when the choice is a cheap gun or no gun, some people are going to acquire the cheap gun. Some of those people will upgrade when they can afford to, and some will not.
Setting aside the discussion about quality and personal choices (and BTW I own zero guns made by Charter Arms or Taurus) I have seen far more Charter Arms revolvers carried by people in the northeast U.S. than Taurus revolvers and I've seen far more Taurus model 85's in the southeast than I've seen Charter Arms revolvers.
When it comes to these lower cost small DA revolvers', there appears to be a regional preference.
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Outpost75
Active Member
I have absolutely observed regional preferences in the South for the smaller I-frame S&W and pre-war Colt Police Positives in .38 S&W and Colt New Police and the .32 S&W Long and Colt New Police. I've obtained several of these which were former "sock drawer" guns or off-duty pieces, the latter being tweaked and modified for professional users in which the work was well thought out and carefully executed. Some examples:
Outpost75
Active Member
Absolutely agree. I have a 32-1 for which I fitted an extra "shaved" Model 36 .38 Special cylinder and yoke assy., shortening the cylinder to fit the shorter frame window. It is limited to .38 Special cartridges not exceeding 1.40" overall cartridge length, but having the .38 S&W revolver with optional .38 Special cylinder assembly in the travel bag is a useful option, as out on the road you won't find .38 S&W rounds at Walmart.
I don't feed the Model 32-1 any .38 Special +P, but it shoots close to the sights with the Speer 135-grain Gold Dot "Short Barrel" component bullet in .38 Special brass with 4.2 grains of Bullseye, at standard-pressure which expands "some" from the 1-7/8" barrel, a load which I also use in the S&W Airweight .38 Specials. The Terrier does very well with the .38 Special swap-cylinder with "full-charge" wadcutters assembled with 3.5 grains of Bullseye. For recreational shooting in the .38 S&W cartridge I use the Accurate 36-142H bullet with 2.5 grains of Bullseye, which weighs 145 grains in 1 to 40 tin-lead alloy and approximates .38 Special wadcutter or .38 Colt New Police ballistics, about 680 fps from the snubbie.
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CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
Four 38 S&Ws live at my house--Colt PP x 4" and S&W Regulation Police x 4". These both get #358477 (NOE) sized to fit @ .359" and .361" respectively atop 3.0 grains of Unique. Velocity is about 725 FPS, and both shoot right where the sights look at 25 yards. The sights on the Colt are better by accident than the S&W's are on purpose. Colt was made in 1920, the S&W roughly 1933. Both are accurate little jewels, as jackrabbits have learned to their permanent consternation. Song dogs gotta eat, too.
The other 2 examples are actually 38/200s of WWII vintage--a S&W M&P x 5" and a Webley-Enfiled top-break with ~4.5" barrel. Both of these need a .363" bullet to fit the throats, and I use NEI #169A to load for these. those bullets scale at 202 grains in WW metal, and that same 3.0 grains of Unique imparts 650-675 FPS from the S&W. Sedate, but when they strike steel dinger plates the impact is respectable. The S&W can manage 2.75"-3.00" groups at 25 yards; The W/E groups are about half-again larger. Both would do for dispatching evil-doers or malefactors. That #169A is a strange bullet--it is longer than the case it gets seated into. (.810" vs. .775")
The 38 S&W would be a great small game or varmint caliber, as is the 32 S&W Long. It seems a shame that both are relegated to "enthusiast caliber" status these days. Not everyone wants or needs a 17 round mag capacity or thunderous report in their sports sidearms.
The other 2 examples are actually 38/200s of WWII vintage--a S&W M&P x 5" and a Webley-Enfiled top-break with ~4.5" barrel. Both of these need a .363" bullet to fit the throats, and I use NEI #169A to load for these. those bullets scale at 202 grains in WW metal, and that same 3.0 grains of Unique imparts 650-675 FPS from the S&W. Sedate, but when they strike steel dinger plates the impact is respectable. The S&W can manage 2.75"-3.00" groups at 25 yards; The W/E groups are about half-again larger. Both would do for dispatching evil-doers or malefactors. That #169A is a strange bullet--it is longer than the case it gets seated into. (.810" vs. .775")
The 38 S&W would be a great small game or varmint caliber, as is the 32 S&W Long. It seems a shame that both are relegated to "enthusiast caliber" status these days. Not everyone wants or needs a 17 round mag capacity or thunderous report in their sports sidearms.
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