Tokarev & its copies

[Mickdidit]

Came across a Norinco 54 7.62x25 Tokarev copy. Slugs .311. Very little data on loads for this thing! Then there's the forever CZ52 strength debate. Most 7.62x25 data is for the CZ52.
Not a fan of Chinese firearms by any stretch, curiosity is my drive! Interesting round. I'm casting with Lee's 93 gr RN, drops #2 alloy at 85 grains.
Anyone here load for this one?
Thank You in Advance!

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

 

[RicinYakima]

Look for Hornady #9 manual for data with their bullet, and Accurate #2 Manual.

 

[Joshua]

30 Mauser data will never get you in trouble when loading for any firearm that was designed for the 7.62x25 Tokarev, as you may already know these two rounds are externally identical. 30 Mauser is rated to a lower pressure.

30 Mauser CIP Pmax = 2250 bar

7.62x25 Tokarev CIP Pmax = 2500 bar


Personally I would put together a few starting loads and check function. I would increase the powder charge until I had reliable cycling. This data is for 84 grain bullets so I would definitely begin with the starting load. You could even reduce these by 10% to be on the safe side.

 

[fiver]

those Norinco's will operate at lower pressure no problem.
i use a X25 magazine as a spare in the one 9mm, the other is the short magazine type so it won't take it.
but they both operate on 3grs of fast powders with a 125gr. bullet at 100%

the X25 probably has a much stronger recoil spring, so i'd use the 30 mauser data and just work up to 100% functioning first then see what i could do for the accuracy second.

 

[RBHarter]

Load 5 rounds at each step .
Shoot them on target .
Watch the groups .
Follow the trend or stop one step above clean function .

If the groups aren't making you happy pick another bullet OR powder and repeat until it does make you happy .

This is my process for all autos . If you're likely to have feed issues and insufficient/short stroke it'll show on the extension/unloaded end of the spring . Generally speaking this will keep you out of trouble , I have had 3 guns that shoot their best at the top end and 2 of those were no fun there .
I've had probably real close to 100 ........

 

[CZ93X62]

Lots of Time-In-Grade with the 30 Mauser/7.62 x 25 Tokarev; I own a C-96, a ChiCom Type 54 like the O/P. and a CZ-52.

Specific to the Tokarev--the milsurp ammo from China that I pulled down c. 1990 all had .307" FMJ bullets. Throat is a few tenths under .311", barrel is a few tenths over .310". A .311" bullet seated into the case neck won't fit into the chamber, it hangs up on the too-small chamber neck. My solution was to resize the brass without the expander ball/rod in place, then ream the case necks with the Forster 30 Caliber neck reamer. This was a requirement with both my initial brass (reformed W-W 9mm Win Mag brass) and for my later-purchased Starline 7.62 Tokarev brass in this pistol. The C-96 and the CZ-52 have other less obnoxious quirks that prompt me to load ammo for all 3 pistols with slight differences. Kind of a PITA, but worth it.

The Mauser case and the Tokarev case are NOT identical; Mauser is .990" long, while the Tok is .970" long. The critical diameters of the Tok case are all a few thousandths smaller, and the case shoulder a few thousandths shorter as well. The upshot of this is that 30 Mauser size dies won't quite resize Tokarev brass enough to run in Tokarev or CZ-52 pistols--not mine, at least.

Cases will stretch upon every firing, and more so as pressures increase. With the Mauser brass, trimming is needed every second firing (#313249 @ 1225 FPS). In the Tokarev brass with that bullet at 1400 FPS, you'll trim after every firing.

There isn't much case neck to hold bullets securely with these cartridges. You'll need a slight roll crimp into a cannelure with jacketed bullets, or it WILL TELESCOPE BULLETS upon feedramp contact during cycling. Depending upon cast bullet design, a slight roll crimp or a taper crimp INTO A DRIVE BAND will snug things up properly. Trying to roll crimp these dinky necks into a cast bullet crimp groove is a frustrating enterprise IME; too much roll crimp causes the tiny neck to "spring away" from the bullet sidewall. I use the 30 Mauser size die minus the decapping rod/expander ball to just "kiss" the end of the case mouth into the bullet drive band. Yes, It can be fiddly.

The brass used the Winchester White Box loaders in 7.62 x 25 is excellent for reloading, as is Fiocchi. Starline is also quite good.

 

[CZ93X62]

Best load ever in all pistols--Lee 100 grain RN atop 6.5 grains of AA-7 in the C-96; 7.0 grains in the Tok and the CZ. AA-7 has been the single-best powder PERIOD in 30 Mauser/7.62 x 25 Tok as well as in the 30 Luger, jacketed or cast.

 

[MW65]

Getting ready to play with Lee tl314-90 in mine. Korean War bring back which I swapped a new old stock chicom barrel to take care of a well loved (pitted) ruski barrel.