Turning hardened steel

[Tomme boy]

Trying to make a Lee style pusher for sizing. The steel i have is what the place i used to work at used for head bolts on a CAT engine. I don't remember what it was. But it is hard. I barely got it faced. I tried to center drill it for a live center but it is just too hard. I have brand new center drill bits from the same place I worked at. They won't do anything. It polished a very small dent.

I need to get the center as there is a lot of deflection of the steel while turning it. I have brand new carbide insert tools. They are cutting fine except the face. I just have to take small cuts. 0.007" is the max.

I think this will be the only thing I make with this steel. I do remember we had to roll the threads on these. Some of the other stuff it was cut in 2 steps using dies.

My ? Is what steel are you guys using? I want to make a drilling jig for shotgun wads and nitro cards to use with the Russian slug mold. I have another 2.5 foot pieces of I think 1 1/8" of the same alloy. If I can't drill this piece then I won't even bother with the larger stuff.

 

[Brad]

Keith makes his blanks from 1144 and they work just fine. Machines really nice.
I have made them from 12L14 too. Also machines like a dream.
Easiest way is to buy blanks from Keith. Threaded, 3/16” thru hole, already finished exterior. Priced right too.

 

[Joshua]

The lee pushers aren’t all that hard. I’ve dressed the face of one with a file and it cut easily.

You want your pusher to be softer than your die. If you are off center in your press you don’t want your die getting all scratched up.

I’m thinking that a grade five bolt (medium carbon) would be fine, if that was all that was you had laying around.

 

[Ian]

Caterpillar is famous for using grade 9 fasteners for their engines. They cannot be drilled except with carbide. 1700⁰F and an hour cool down in lime or soda ash will anneal them.

 

[Tomme boy]

Well I got it finished. Had to use my grinder with a cut off wheel to part it off. The parting tool just sat there. I think this will be a back up.

 

[358156 hp]

Yup. Grade L9 high tensile steel.

 

[Joshua]

Standard "8640 Grade" Chemical Composition

Carbon	0.38-0.43
Manganese	0.75-1.00
Phosphorus (max)	0.035
Sulfur (max)	0.040
Silicon	0.15-0.35
Nickel	0.40-0.70
Chromium	0.40-0.60
Molybdenum	0.15-0.25

8640 is the grade of steel used in those bolts. That looks like some good stuff they use to make them grade 9 fasteners.

I have made some power hammer and anvil cut off tools with 4340, which is also some really tough stuff even when annealed. It has a bit more nickel and chromium. Both of these on paper look like really tough steels.

4340 CHEMICAL ANALYSIS
C%	Carbon 0.38 – 0.43
Mn%	Manganese 0.6 – 0.8 max
P%	Phosphorus 0.035 max
S%	Sulfur 0.040 max
Si%	Silicon 0.15 – 0.3
Ni%	Nickel 1.65 – 2.0
Cr%	Chromium 0.7 – 0.9
Mo%	Molybdenum 0.2 – 0.3

 

[Tomme boy]

@Ian they actually were 10 after heat treat. That was what they stretch tested to actually be. I think I remember over 200K psi to break them.

I figured that since it was not heat treated it would have been fine. A learning experience i guess

 

[Tomme boy]

This would be why they were sheared to cut the initial length then? Some things were sheared and some were same cut for the first cut.

These were actually one of the simplest bolts we made. They were sheared. Then they were swaged to diameter and a round head in one cycle pushed into a die set. Then head is pushed through a shear die to cut off the sides to make the flats. I Don't remember if they wen5 to heat treat or rolling the threads next.

Thread rolling is a lot stronger than cutting the threads. The engineers would spec stuff both ways to customers to show the breaking points and cost of each way per unit. I had to replace all the lexan 2x a month on the testing fixtures that did the breaking test. Some were pretty violent when they let loose.

 

[Joshua]

It is pretty cool to watch a bolt fail a pull test. I have only seen it done once. I just happened to be there on some other business.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

TB, I made three pushers myself. Because I needed longer to work with my custom die that used 450 sizers as a push thru.

I started with old Lyman shell holders and Round steel stock of correct dia. I truned the 35 & 45 to fit and sit on the shell holder perfectly. Then welded them, then I hardened them. They are past file hard and work just fine. I have a 30, a 35 and a 45.
I even got a lil fancy and spun welded the 30cal into the shell holder!! I first made a nice fit in the thru hole, then spun it till it was red hot and then I stopped. That thing hasnt moved one micron sizing many many bullets. The 35 & 45 where just welded to the shell holder. The 45 got a bit too hot and had to be relieved to fit the ram properly. But the biggest PIA was re softening to be able to file!
Was pretty easy over all. Acetylene torches and Used engine oil was used to harden/quench.

CW

 

[L Ross]

TB, I made three pushers myself. Because I needed longer to work with my custom die that used 450 sizers as a push thru.

I started with old Lyman shell holders and Round steel stock of correct dia. I truned the 35 & 45 to fit and sit on the shell holder perfectly. Then welded them, then I hardened them. They are past file hard and work just fine. I have a 30, a 35 and a 45.
I even got a lil fancy and spun welded the 30cal into the shell holder!! I first made a nice fit in the thru hole, then spun it till it was red hot and then I stopped. That thing hasnt moved one micron sizing many many bullets. The 35 & 45 where just welded to the shell holder. The 45 got a bit too hot and had to be relieved to fit the ram properly. But the biggest PIA was re softening to be able to file!
Was pretty easy over all. Acetylene torches and Used engine oil was used to harden/quench.

CW

Be a little careful when quenching with drain oil. I was in the black smith shop one day and we were quenching a sword and a fellow reenactor walked in who was the Haz-Mat Lt. at the Fire Dept. We got a lecture on the PBB's and other additives in motor oil that create hazardous smoke. He went on to explain the importance of the breathing gear they use and fighting fires in garages etc. He was not even crazy about bees wax smoke as some artists that use it for some type of fabric work get lung issues. He suggested mineral oil or linseed oil. He said a by product of quenching in linseed oil was true boiled linseed oil unlike the modern stuff that has chemical dryers. J.W. Filips have you a comment on that?

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Haha of coarse ya know the "smoke" off that lead pot aint healthy...

But there is no iron content in Mineral or linseed oils..

Yup as all casting in WELL VENTILATED areas only!