Type 38 ? 6.5×50

RBHarter

West Central AR
Well I think that's what it is anyway ......

One of the last guns Dad bought is a little , I'd guess , type 38 carbine . A sported stock with an ebony tip , I'm no wood worker but I think I could have fitted that better . It's ugly and has many spots and speckles . It came with about 30 rounds of Norma marked at $35/20 ......

After some research it seems to me that after all of the reading about brass forming with 35 Rem etc that if the information is correct 30-30 with a little rim trim would be a lot less work to convert . They share the .422 head/base and with any luck at all most of the extra neck will draw back with CoW fire forming to fill the shoulder . Or it might be reamed 6.5 -257 .

I need a shell holder but that shouldn't be a big deal I probably have at least 1 that'll do for now . 40, x39 , or 6.8 , I may even have a 35 Rem .
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Terra incognita for me. I'm having enough fun gathering all of the tools for the 348 WCF currently. I think I have everything needed enroute now. Huntington Die Specialties has a very primitive & wonky ordering regimen, in case you wind up looking there. Call between 9 A.M. and 3 P.M. Monday-Friday.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
Disregard the 30-30 case reference ....... .442 is a long way from .422 . I don't know how I managed that must have been all the 4s and 2s ....

Just buy the stupid PPU brass and be happy .
 

JonB

Halcyon member
I am happy with the custom T-38 that I have, that a prior owned had chamber reamed to 257 x 6.5
One thing with mine, I found it has a very tight throat, but a large groove dia (.2685), so all the fat molds made by NOE are designed for a worn military throat. except the one NOE cloned from Lyman 266469
anyway, it sure is easy to expand the 257Rob brass to 6.5 then fireform.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
My 38 was reamed to 6.5x257R . The action is more than stout enough to handle anything you can put in it and 257 brass is far easier to find than 6.5x50. Barrel dimensions can vary widely, and some are supposed to be gain twist, but they make a decent hunting rifle with Hornady 160 RN's. Cast is another can of worms and I haven't figured that part out yet.

The safety grows on you after a bit.
 

JonB

Halcyon member
Whoever did the custom work on mine, put a aftermarket trigger, probably a Timney, because it has a safety exactly like Timney has on their Mauser 98 trigger ...btw, I've searched for aftermarket triggers for the T-38 (new or used) and came up empty, so whoever made this, no longer does and never seen one on a auction site.
The custom worker, also put a mannlicher stock on it...nice work. The overall looks of the gun, I'd guess it was done in 50s or 60s.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
Arisaka copied the Mauser trigger, right down close enough I almost put the wrong trigger back in the oldest girls rifle when I was re-doing the stock on it.
it probably wouldn't take too much gun smithing skill to make one work.
 

JonB

Halcyon member
well, that would certainly explain why I've never been able to find a Arisaka Timney trigger.
 

Joshua

Taco Aficionado/Salish Sea Pirate/Part-Time Dragon
They do make a Timney for the Type 99. I should have bought the one that I saw offered about a year and a half ago.
Josh
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
Things I learned today .
Midway has PPU brass for about the same price as 308 and 30-30.
The first photo says "type 38 rifle" the 2nd means 4th series more accurately 4th year of production , 1927 and Nagoya arsenal in blocks of 100,000 #s 0-99,999 . Placing this about Oct 1927 . The stock is Bubba'd with a badly fit ebony tip and white line recoil pad .
IMG_20201208_173556776~2.jpg
IMG_20201208_173645618~3.jpg

It has a 2 groove .257×.268 barrel of 19-1/2" . The chamber is confirmed to be 6.5×50 . It's not worn much for 97 yr old , but the barrel is pretty dark .
I have a .260-120 that might patch up ..... I have a .270-140 gr NOE also . It was to fat for the 264 WM the nose wouldn't even fit .... That should fix most of the bugs and get some holes in paper . It appears to have an 8.5" twist making 2 turns from crown to throat , 17" plus the chamber on 19.5" .

Not mentioned in any of the reading was the 2 groove barrel , 4 land widths per groove . This one has an inside the bow floor plate release , bent bolt , and OM ladder sight zero to 200 down 400-2000 metres up .
13 yr old Granddaughter likes it ......

Stripper clips ........charger clips ?

It is badly out classed by the modern 6.5s the Wonder CM for example runs almost 200 fps faster with a 140 gr ...... Presuming both could be run wide open with the same bullet . I don't see 2400 fps with a 140 to be a major handicap on a 48,000 psi 6.5 mm cartridge vs 2600 . Of course its a .268 groove like the Carcano and I shoot mostly cast so it's not much of a deal ......
 
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Jeff H

NW Ohio
Interesting project, keep us posted on how it shoots!

I second that. Last gun my dad drug home was a 6.5x50 carbine, Bubba'd and all. I fell for the 6.5s when I was a kid and still love them.

I've wondered how close it is to the 6.5 Grendel, speaking of modern wonder-cartridges "outclassing it." Nothing against it - I just muse at the way people talk it up and here it's about on par with cartridges which have been traditionally considered "puny." I"m all about close-in, low-powered efficiency these days. Five-pound carbines excite me.

I've wanted to research whether the 6.5x50 would be "doable" on a Contender Carbine. Seems MGM has enough faith in the G2 (only) to chamber barrels in the Grendel. I'm not one to press limits on stuff I can't afford to replace, so it'd have to be well withing safe limits for me to consider it for real.
 

Bruce Drake

Active Member
Jeff, I consider my 6.5 Grendel as a modern equivalent to the 6.5x50 Arisaka but I also know that the Grendel excels in the 100-120gr bullet weight while the 6.5 Arisaka does better in the 140-160gr weight due to its larger case volume. That said, EABCO ( https://www.eabco.net/Contender-and-G2_c_2797.html) does chamberings for their Contender Barrels in 6.5BRM (their custom 6.5/30-30 Wildcat) and 6.8 SPC, so I don't think you'd have a problem asking them to chamber a barrel in 6.5x50SR... :)
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
Thanks JW lots of good stuff there .

Nowhere mentioned is the 2 groove barrel . The example I'm working with appears to be a 1927 so I wonder if the 2 groove was a standard vs a time saver like ours .
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
I believe they used Metford style rifling for the T38 Arisaka barrels.

Yes they did! That is why when I slugged my bore I thought I had a smooth bore! I got scared!... however it turned out to be my most accurate mil surp!
Metford rifling is great with cast!
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
The important thing to do is to make a pound cast! That tells the story of the size of the bullet you need! Not the caliber!
My rifle was old made in the 1 decade of the 20th century (1908) The throat is oversize but the bore is the typical Type 38!
You need a larger cast bullet to satisfy the throat ! The bore will take care of the rest ! Usual story for most all mil surps.
They all can be good target guns but you need to coax it out of them !