type 99

[todd]

i just got a sporterized type 99 in '06 with the serial # 25XXX. i paid one ben franklin for it. i know nuthin about the type 99 but it is a mauser derivative. i've read(briefly) that after the US defeated Japan, that the type 99 was captured. we didn't have the capability to produce 7.7 jap so we put them in warehouse. then the Korean war happened and then we still don't have a 7.7 jap, but we do have a '06 case and '06 barrels galore. so we said " 'merica " and we 'merica the type 99 and they were sent to South Korea.

i do have question, you notice my thumb is pointing to a half peep sight hole (i don't know the name of it). i don't know name of the manufacturer, but it could be redfield? anyway, does anybody know what you put into the half peep sight hole?

numrich has the 7.7 jap barrels and i'll buy 7.7 jap reloading dies. i have cases of '06, could you reform the '06 to the 7.7 jap?

 

[Joshua]

The US didn't rebarrel type 99's for the Koreans. We just reamed the chambers of the original barrels. The accuracy wasn't great with 30-06 ball ammo. The Koreans used these as second line, guard duty, and police rifles.

I'd leave it alone and find a set of 7.7-06 dies. They exist, (Edit: I have never seen a set, I have read that these dies were made) the expander ball should be about .309". You could even get by with a regular set of 30-06 dies with the decapping rod/expander ball swapped out for a .303, 7.7X58mm, or 7.65X53mm (you have one of those already) expander ball. You would need to anneal on a regular basis because the brass would be getting a regular work out. I use an NOE style expander for my 7.7X58mm brass, I use the .318 x .314 plug as my rifles both measure between .3155" and .3165". Yes, my brass gets quite the work out.

(Edit: your chamber at the neck might be too tight to use a cast bullet, My 30-06 chambered rifle will only acomadate a .313" max diameter bullet, my Arisaka barrels need a .317-.318 bullet. Your rifle might still be a great shooter with .312" jacketed bullets. It really depends what the dimensions of the reamer was. First thing I would do is make a pound cast to see what you are working with.)

I like using military 30-06 brass and milder loads because the base of the Arisaka chambers are pretty sloppy. The thicker brass deals with the resulting bulge much more gracefully than the thinner commercial brass. Even though your rifle has been rechambered and has had the shoulder area cleaned up it will still have the sloppy area at the base of the chamber, unless your barrel was set back. This rarely happened, most were just reamed.

Yes, you can make 7.7X58mm from 30-06 brass. But you can also make 7.7-06 brass from 30-06. You will have a sloppy chamber either way. The Numrich 7.7 barrel will have a sloppy chamber(they all did), unless you set it back and purchase a 7.7X58mm reamer. Pacific tool will sell you one for $169.50. The 7.7-06 Brass will be a lot easier to make(very little trimming).

There can however be issues with 30-06 OAL in the Type 99 magazines. I believe that the Korean rechambered rifles had a slot cut just behind the chamber so that 30-06 on stripper clips could still be used.

I have a sporterized Type 99 in similar shape to yours. I have considered setting back the barrel and having it rebored/rechambered to 35 Whelen. The stock barrels have enough meat if cut just behind the front sight for JES to do a rebore.

Good Luck with whatever you do. But, if it was me I would see if I could make it shoot good as is.

 

[RicinYakima]

Yes, that is top of a Redfield 101 sight. That is the rear aperture ring that someone ground off to make a "u" rear sight. It is not repairable.

 

[todd]

Yes, that is top of a Redfield 101 sight. That is the rear aperture ring that someone ground off to make a "u" rear sight. It is not repairable.

crap........well i'll start looking for a replacement.

 

[todd]

The US didn't rebarrel type 99's for the Koreans. We just reamed the chambers of the original barrels. The accuracy wasn't great with 30-06 ball ammo. The Koreans used these as second line, guard duty, and police rifles.

I'd leave it alone and find a set of 7.7-06 dies. They exist, (Edit: I have never seen a set, I have read that these dies were made) the expander ball should be about .309". You could even get by with a regular set of 30-06 dies with the decapping rod/expander ball swapped out for a .303, 7.7X58mm, or 7.65X53mm (you have one of those already) expander ball. You would need to anneal on a regular basis because the brass would be getting a regular work out. I use an NOE style expander for my 7.7X58mm brass, I use the .318 x .314 plug as my rifles both measure between .3155" and .3165". Yes, my brass gets quite the work out.

(Edit: your chamber at the neck might be too tight to use a cast bullet, My 30-06 chambered rifle will only acomadate a .313" max diameter bullet, my Arisaka barrels need a .317-.318 bullet. Your rifle might still be a great shooter with .312" jacketed bullets. It really depends what the dimensions of the reamer was. First thing I would do is make a pound cast to see what you are working with.)

I like using military 30-06 brass and milder loads because the base of the Arisaka chambers are pretty sloppy. The thicker brass deals with the resulting bulge much more gracefully than the thinner commercial brass. Even though your rifle has been rechambered and has had the shoulder area cleaned up it will still have the sloppy area at the base of the chamber, unless your barrel was set back. This rarely happened, most were just reamed.

Yes, you can make 7.7X58mm from 30-06 brass. But you can also make 7.7-06 brass from 30-06. You will have a sloppy chamber either way. The Numrich 7.7 barrel will have a sloppy chamber(they all did), unless you set it back and purchase a 7.7X58mm reamer. Pacific tool will sell you one for $169.50. The 7.7-06 Brass will be a lot easier to make(very little trimming).

There can however be issues with 30-06 OAL in the Type 99 magazines. I believe that the Korean rechambered rifles had a slot cut just behind the chamber so that 30-06 on stripper clips could still be used.

I have a sporterized Type 99 in similar shape to yours. I have considered setting back the barrel and having it rebored/rechambered to 35 Whelen. The stock barrels have enough meat if cut just behind the front sight for JES to do a rebore.

Good Luck with whatever you do. But, if it was me I would see if I could make it shoot good as is.

good to know!!!!! i learn something new everyday.

 

[Joshua]

Here is a PDF copy of the the official US Type 99 manual from the Korean War Era.

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/manuals/US%20Arisaka%20manual.pdf

 

[RBHarter]

Make sure it's a chambered ......... There was a guy several years ago that tried an 06' case and it wouldn't go so he bought 100 7.7 cases at some buck 75 nonsense only to discover they wouldn't chamber either ...... Eventually a 308 would almost go into the bolt cam . It was set back and chambered for 300 Sav .

It is my understanding that the 7.7 is a 303 Britt rimless more or less . I mucked up the slugging and don't want to discuss it . The 8×57 and 7.7 are pretty darn close and a sloppy body on an 8×57 I or J vs JS is probably really , really close .
I or J had a .318 groove .

More tidbits of useless information .

 

[RicinYakima]

crap........well i'll start looking for a replacement.

They are cheap and only need to replace the top slide. Any model will interchange.

 

[obssd1958]

Before you dig this hole too far -- check to make sure that you have a functional firing pin. My sporterized 99 had a broken firing pin, and the replacement would have cost more than the rifle did when I bought it @ $150.
Of course, I only found this out after slugging the barrel, casting some fat bullets, working out how to load them, and going to the range.

No bang......

 

[Joshua]

My sporterized 99 had a broken firing pin, and the replacement would have cost more than the rifle did when I bought it @ $150.

There are two type 99 firing pins on fleabay for around 50 bucks right now.

 

[obssd1958]

The rifle is long gone. Another vendor at one of the gunshows, saw the stock that was on mine, and paid me what I had spent so that he could use mine for parts. He knew the firing pin was broken.

 

[Joshua]

The mum on my stock rifle is defaced. The early war production bring back rifle with perfect mum bubba got to. He tried real hard to do a good job with a poorly fitted bishop stock, and by heavily modification of the front and rear sights.

Both rifles are probably worth much more as parts, then as whole rifles.

I don’t have it in me to part out the stock rifle.

 

[fiver]

the 7.7 can be made from 0-6 brass, once fired is best since the 7.7 chamber is generally some oversized versus the 0-6 brass.
[so expect some shrinkage when fire-forming, even false shouldering or jamming the bullet]

you can always cut the chamber off, re-thread, and slightly clean it up with a 300 savage reamer, but then you need to block the magazine or have a 2 shooter.
and you end up with a 31 Savage.

 

[Charles Graff]

The rear sight is a Redfield 102. I am a big fan of receiver sights in general and the Redfield 102 in particular for a hunting sight. Once zeroed and the screws firmly set, you have a sight that will take the rigors of hunting.

20 years ago, when they were cheap, I bought Lyman, Pacific and Redfield sights. Some I used, some I sold and some I still have. I bought several partial 102 (very cheap) for the parts. I just looked in my sight box and I have the part you need to put the sight back the way it was. You will have to come up with a threaded aperture or use it as a ghost ring. I have quite a few apertures, but they are staying with me.

I will mail you the part, free of charge, if you will give me an mailing address. My email addy is charlesgraff716@gmail.com.

 

[todd]

My email addy is charlesgraff716@gmail.com.

i sent you an email

 

[Charles Graff]

i sent you an email

Got it!

 

[358156 hp]

I had a Type 99 Arisaka, late war production, made at Toyo Kogyo at Hiroshima. My particular rifle was in original condition, but was had a chrome lined barrel and had a "last ditch" stock with the wooden butt cap. My rifle did have an intact mum, and came from the estate of my sisters father-in-law, who brought the rifle home after serving in a combat unit at Okinawa as a War Trophy. The machining on the outside of barrel looked like it has been turned on a screw machine, very rough, but it did fit the stock and shot reasonably well. Anyway, the chamber on mine was cut large, and while 7.7 Arisaka brass from Norma fit the chamber without issue, resized and cut down 30-06 cases bulged badly in the chamber, often cracking at the bulge on the first firing. As I mentioned, Norma 7.7 brass worked perfectly, both as factory ammo and reloads. At the time I had it, there were all sorts of warnings about using 30-06 cases because they would bulge, and often crack exactly the way mine did. In the process of shooting it, my firing pin did break, it was a pretty stupid design for a firing pin. 8mm Mauser cases were a bit closer in dimension than 30-06, but it was necessary to expand the case necks to .33 or .35 caliber and fireform before final sizing because the 8mm case shoulder was farther back, and the headspace would be off. 8mm cases ended up slightly shorter than the actual 7.7 cases, but I didn't care. I'd suggest starting off with real 7.7 cases, based on my experiences. They are out there, and of course your mileage may vary. I ended up selling my rifle off at a gun show with it's bayonet. I sold it for $250.00 for it at a time when Type 99s were selling for under $100.00, so I was happy. With its provenance, that rifle would be seriously expensive now at auction.

 

[fiver]

cellophane tape is cheap and prevents the swelling enough that the second firing finishes the job without the cracking.

 

[Joshua]

Both my rifles came from the Nagoya Arsenal. One is obviously early war production, based on the finely knurled saftey, and the quality of the rest of the machined surfaces. My other rifle is a 1943 production rifle, much rougher.

I started out with Norma brass. It is larger at the base. It measures .006” larger than factory unfired 30-06 brass. Norma brass still ends up bulging .009” when fired. The 30-06 ends up bulging .015”.

Military 30-06 brass is so much thicker in the bulge area, it just lasts longer than commercial 30-06 or the Norma brass. I get more firings before retiring the brass to mouse fart loads.

I only use this batch of Norma and Win bulged cases with 3.2 grains of bullseye and an unsized powder coated Lee 90gr SWC. You can definitely feel a groove on the inside with a paper clip.

 

[todd]

Both my rifles came from the Nagoya Arsenal. One is obviously early war production, based on the finely knurled saftey, and the quality of the rest of the machined surfaces. My other rifle is a 1943 production rifle, much rougher.

I started out with Norma brass. It is larger at the base. It measures .006” larger than factory unfired 30-06 brass. Norma brass still ends up bulging .009” when fired. The 30-06 ends up bulging .015”.

Military 30-06 brass is so much thicker in the bulge area, it just lasts longer than commercial 30-06 or the Norma brass. I get more firings before retiring the brass to mouse fart loads.View attachment 21164
View attachment 21165
I only use this batch of Norma and Win bulged cases with 3.2 grains of bullseye and an unsized powder coated Lee 90gr SWC. You can definitely feel a groove on the inside with a paper clip.

i've been thinking about that and i looked to see if i had any military cases and i have 10-12 cases. i'll have to find(order) some cases. i still have to do a chamber cast and a bore slug. if the bore is .311 - .313" then that will good enuff for gummint werk. if it goes .314" and up, then i have a problem. the chamber cast neck "should" be .313" (it will probably be .311" ). jacketed bullets are sooooooo yesterday, cast boolits are the craze right now. i wonder if my gunsmith is able to "ream" the neck to fit the bore? and for that matter, i wonder if he could do the dies also? hmmmmmm....well i'll cross that bridge when i come to it. i have a couple or several '06 that i loaded up(so long ago). i will shoot them just to "see" the bulge.