Use guys have Caused me a Problem Already

[Brad]

Now that would be an interesting treatise. Get into a revolver with misaligned chambers, small cylinder throats, odd forcing cone angles, and all the other things that can go wrong.
Come on Ian, you have the free time.....

 

[Ian]

Revolvers function by a very simple mechanism: #@%&ing magic. There's simply no other explanation for how a launch platform with a floating chamber that leaks gas around the bullet throughout the highest pressure point of the firing cycle could possibly shoot well.

 

[Rick]

It's not leaking gas if done correctly. Assuming a properly dimensioned revolver when the front band is through the forcing cone and engraving the rear band is still in the throat sealing the gas. By the time the rear band is in the forcing cone the bore is well sealed. Only some gas lost at the gap but the bullet/bore seal is complete. Not magic, a good revolver and proper bullet sizing and all is good.

 

[Brad]

Key is “good revolver” which often means $$$$
I proved to myself that a factory revolver can be capable of quite good accuracy but not nearly up to snuff for the games Rick played.

 

[Rick]

Not always big bucks, depends on what you want to do and the revolver your starting with. If the groove diameter is larger than the throats and or the throats aren't consistent in diameter it's not difficult or expensive to ream the throats to match the groove diameter. If the timing is off a qualified smith and adjust that depending on the cause of it being out of time. If the groove diameter is much more than a couple of thousands smaller than the throats it a little more complicated and/or expensive. But it's not magic and it's not really complicated, how well you can get it to shoot depends entirely on distance, velocity and accuracy that your willing to settle for.

 

[CZ93X62]

Revolvers are a lot like bees and helicopters, which shouldn't be able to fly but do so very successfully. Revolvers shouldn't shoot as well as they do--but they certainly can and do. I completely agree with Rick's take on the revolver bullet's engravement into the rifling origin prior to release from throat influence having the sealing effect he speaks of, and I would add that such arrangements do MUCH to ensure bullet alignment with the bore as well. When those short little 110 and 125 grain JHPs won't shoot as well as the 140-160 grain bullets of any kind, I suspect the mystery is solved by inconsistent alignment of a too-short bullet not fully engraved prior to release from the throat. I used to work like a rented mule to get the 110 and 125 JHPs to work as well as the 158 grain castings and J-words in my 38s and 357s to whack jacks with. The longer/heavier bullets always shot better at distance. ALWAYS. A couple years of that frustration resulted in me expanding my casting bit beyond the 32 revolvers and autopistols, because the short/light revolver bullets were a %$^#ing waste of time. I still load carry-load duplicators for the 38s and 357s and their 125 grain JHPs, but hold no illusions about their accuracy at any distance for varmint hunting. 2-legged varmints up close is their strong suit.

 

[Pistolero]

In addition to your assessment of short bullets poorer chances of consistent alignment inside the gun (which
I am in full agreement with) there is probably a contribution from a short stubby projectile having less consistent
characteristics while in flight, in addition to while being launched.

And, what Rick says is absolutely correct - but in this particular commentary, he neglected the darned
thread choke issue, a problem in itself which can be a difficult one to overcome if you don't have the
tools and skills to pull barrels and reset the torque on them to eliminate the choke.

Bill

 

[Rick]

Have never had a revolver with that dreaded thread choke. As much as is written about it I kept looking in all my Rugers, Smith's, FA's. Have yet to find it but I guess it must be out there. If it is it's probably a PITA but curable.

 

[Pistolero]

Interesting. IME, Many S&Ws since the 80s have it. The easiest measure is to find
which gage pin will fit the bore, and drop it in the muzzle. If it falls through, you are
good, usually with S&W .38 and .44s, it goes 'clink' just about 1/2" in front of the frame.

Bill

 

[waco]

My 29-5 definitely has thread choke. It’s beyond my skill set to fix it. Not a lot of gunsmiths in my neck of the woods.

 

[popper]

OK, thnking of getting a revolver, looking at the Ruger LCR in 9mm. Are they any good? Will just use it for carry, heavy factory stuff ( normally use 130gr cast in my XDs). Should be a better load than 38sp with same weight. NAA 22lr is nice but not much power.

 

[Pistolero]

That's a shame. I am part way into a firelapping attempt to take it out of a Model
29 with 8 3/8 bbl for a friend. Did one session, not much effect with 40 rds, will load
up another 50 and see what we get.
I think I would want .38 Spl over 9mm, but that is just me. Does the LCR 9mm use
moon clips? That is a reloading convenience.

Bill

 

[CZ93X62]

None of my current S&W and Ruger safe occupants show thread choke. I have seen it on a couple of each makers' examples, and the owners resolved it to their satisfaction with fire-lapping. This country could do with a couple thousand more gunsmiths, AFAIC--if only to finish building the projects started and abandoned by the mainstream makers.

 

[RBHarter]

Knowing what little I know about S&W , limited to an N frame 45 and mechanics knowledge of threads I think it would be pretty hard to get thread choke in one . They are really fine and I would think probably pull before they crushed much . Maybe if the frame thread is tapered for locking but that would kind of defeat the pinning . I don't mean an NPT type of taper but more maybe 2-3 threads at the barrel shoulder of +.002 or at the cylinder side on the frame at -.002 .

 

[Rick H]

OK, thnking of getting a revolver, looking at the Ruger LCR in 9mm. Are they any good? Will just use it for carry, heavy factory stuff ( normally use 130gr cast in my XDs). Should be a better load than 38sp with same weight. NAA 22lr is nice but not much power.

I have a LCRx3, the adjustable sight 3" 38sp. LCR. I believe the 9mm has the SS shroud like the .357 and weighs some ounces more than the 38. I like mine. It has a reasonably good trigger (superior to current J-frame Smiths for sure). It is an aluminum framed gun with a sleeved barrel. Mine is pretty accurate with Lee 125 RF, and Winchester 130gr. HP+Ps. I use it as a kit gun, woods carry piece. The Trigger has an odd curve and seems short and takes some getting used to. It is ugly as sin, but I like mine.

 

[Gary]

OK, thnking of getting a revolver, looking at the Ruger LCR in 9mm. Are they any good? Will just use it for carry, heavy factory stuff ( normally use 130gr cast in my XDs). Should be a better load than 38sp with same weight. NAA 22lr is nice but not much power.

I absolutely love my LCR in 9mm; excellent fit and feel and conceals well. The Moon Clips afford a quick reload, similar to Speed Loaders, and the trigger is very good. Always a + for me NOT to have to scrounge around on the ground for spent brass.

 

[Bass Ackward]

Revolvers function by a very simple mechanism: #@%&ing magic. There's simply no other explanation for how a launch platform with a floating chamber that leaks gas around the bullet throughout the highest pressure point of the firing cycle could possibly shoot well.

So I guess that was a …. NO on accepting the challenge. Dang

A line bored, assuming it's done right replicates rifle conditions and what makes life easy for anyone with any experience. But I need to see (interpret) what's happening to a bullet under less than ideal conditions. I can see it in my head, but putting it down in a coherent manner is the trick.

 

[Brad]

A little misalignment can smear the bullet on one side. Having .432 throats and a .429 barrel doesn’t help either.

 

[Rick]

Having .432 throats and a .429 barrel doesn’t help either.

Certainly not ideal but far better than the other way around, .429" throats and a .432" bore. That's easy enough to cure but until you do. What a lot of people fail to understand is that a revolvers throats are without doubt the world's greatest bullet sizer. The ideal is that what is loaded in the case is exactly what comes out the muzzle with only rifling engraving added. No squeezing down, no bumping up that many advocate.

A timing issue can cause all manor headaches and would take a qualified revolver smith to correct. Possibly a new cylinder, depends on why it's out of time and by how much. On a line bored revolver like the FA there is no cylinder side play and it's not needed. On many production revolvers there is a good bit of side play, if when locked up the center line of the throat isn't not perfectly in line with the center line of the bore the side play allows movement of the cylinder as the nose of the bullet reaches the forcing cone.

Barrel cylinder gap is also far wider on production revolvers. On many if when the cylinder is locked up and the gap is measured with a feeler gauge and then the cylinder is rotated 180 degrees the gap can be much wider or narrower, the cylinder isn't rotating true on it's axis and a wider gap prevents the cylinder face from binding on the rear of the barrel. On the FA barrel cylinder gap is .001" or .002" and far less gas is lost.

 

[Brad]

A revolver cylinder throat is a great sizer. It also can be a great source of pleasing if smaller than the bore. My Ruger BH in 45 Colt came with .450 or so throats. Leader like a sumnabitch. I opened them to .452, feed them .452 bullets, and no more leading. I was feeding it .452 bullets but the throats made them a nice .450. Seeing lead build up in the throats is a good sign that this is happening.