Various Low Node Rifle Targets I have shot
- Thread starter JWFilips
- Start date
JWFilips
Well-Known Member
Going to add a new one here. It is from a super worn out JP Saure und Sohn, Nazi 98 Mauser from WW2. It originally was the typical 8 mm x 57 and when I received it, I think the best group I could shoot with military ammo was about 13" @ 50 yds!.... the bore and Throat was really trash and I was told to either rebarrel it of just junk it & do not spend the time! Well with some Fine Tutelage from a friend on the CB forum Larry Miller ( Largom) I fire lapped the heck out of it and got the thing to normalize at about .331 caliber.....OK now to find a bullet! I settled on the .329-205 Lee however I had to beagle it up. The guidance I was given during this time was to use the "4 number" rifle powders with reduced loads and Dacron fill! After doing this for about 8 months...I decide it was a royal PITA and never got the rifle to shoot well so I put it away for a number of years!
Over those years I started making my own decisions as to what accurate low velocity rifle shooting needed. "Ben" of course was my biggest influence!
Groups with my rifles and cast started to tighten up to ragged "one holers) at times ( more often then not)!
I found a new path. Then Ben let me borrow a .338 caliber Lyman mould that was plain base......these I sized down to .333" ( which is the rifles throat entrance. With traditional lube this rifle stated turning in 1"- 5 shot groups at 50 yards with 8.1 gr Of Red Dot and Large Pistol primers!
I was very happy!
Since I now am on the " PC" quest; I decide to try this rifle with PC coated bullets. These too were sized .333" after applying Smokes Clear PC.
I knew that I need to drop the charge a bit for the pc coating and I only had CCI 200 LRP this time . The charge I choose was 7.7 grains Red Dot.
On the 3rd of March I went to the range to see how it shot these. I shot 3-10 shot groups at 50 yds; the first two really impressed me at grouping under 1" However the 3rd 10 shot group I shot startled me They were 5 shots into 3/8" center to center. This from a rifle I thought was trash when I got it.
I realize never to give up on old mil surps!
Jim
Over those years I started making my own decisions as to what accurate low velocity rifle shooting needed. "Ben" of course was my biggest influence!
Groups with my rifles and cast started to tighten up to ragged "one holers) at times ( more often then not)!
I found a new path. Then Ben let me borrow a .338 caliber Lyman mould that was plain base......these I sized down to .333" ( which is the rifles throat entrance. With traditional lube this rifle stated turning in 1"- 5 shot groups at 50 yards with 8.1 gr Of Red Dot and Large Pistol primers!
I was very happy!
Since I now am on the " PC" quest; I decide to try this rifle with PC coated bullets. These too were sized .333" after applying Smokes Clear PC.
I knew that I need to drop the charge a bit for the pc coating and I only had CCI 200 LRP this time . The charge I choose was 7.7 grains Red Dot.
On the 3rd of March I went to the range to see how it shot these. I shot 3-10 shot groups at 50 yds; the first two really impressed me at grouping under 1" However the 3rd 10 shot group I shot startled me They were 5 shots into 3/8" center to center. This from a rifle I thought was trash when I got it.
I realize never to give up on old mil surps!
Jim
JWFilips
Well-Known Member
fiver: yes you are indeed correct! This morning I proved that again. Absolutely a miserable morning with 20 mph gusts in my face and 20 deg temps but I bided my time and shot between gusts First group of ten ok but not great , second group of 10 a bit better, went back in the car to warm up and after that shot the last ten into about 3/4" center to center ( good to know that the gun & load produce targets that are duplicatable after a few weeks. I did notice that I need to sort into groups the brass by head stamp. The cases for this rifle have been made up from various 30-06 range picks (since I never thought the rifle would shoot well) Seems like the RP cases shoot the most consistent groups. If a few UMC , FC or Win brass gets mixed in there The groups open up.
The other thing I do is never ever shoot an unweighed unsorted cast bullet. If the rifle is worthy I sort in .1gr increments.
If the rifle is a so so shooter I will relax that to .3 gr
Jim
JWFilips
Well-Known Member
It has been over a month since I got to the range ( regular life got in the way!) Since my PC oven now is controlled by the new PID, I have however been busy PC'ing much of my stock of bullets!
I decided to take out the Savage 340 in .30 WCF ( I haven't shot that in awhile) It has a Williams receiver sight and a Lyman 17A front globe in which I have the smallest Lee Shaver aperture disk. Shooting at 50 yds a 3.5" black bull is perfect with this sight combo.
Since I have a pile of NOE 311-165 FN ( Ranch Dog ) Plain base bullets I PC'ed them with Eastwood's Light Ford Blue. and then sized them in my .311 push through sizer which spits them out at .3115"
I normally shoot this same bullet but gas checked base (without checks PC'ed and sized .310") which is my favorite combo.......but I need to cast more so I took a chance on the fatter plain base & I was happy I did.
Yesterday morning was our first really cold morning with frost! At the range it was 29 degrees but crystal clear and no wind.
I shot 50 rounds as 5- ten shot groups.
The 7.1 grains of Unique was selected because previous targets I saved from the past showed the best groups with that plain base PC'ed bullet:
I think it is a good load ......it is around 1200 fps ( that is a bit faster then I usually shoot at and Unique is pretty much the slowest powder I use for "Low Node" shooting).
The 5 targets are posted below: Targets # 2 and # 5 made it a good day for me! The 50 rounds represents 45 minutes of shooting which is about average for me and this rifle.
Jim
I decided to take out the Savage 340 in .30 WCF ( I haven't shot that in awhile) It has a Williams receiver sight and a Lyman 17A front globe in which I have the smallest Lee Shaver aperture disk. Shooting at 50 yds a 3.5" black bull is perfect with this sight combo.
Since I have a pile of NOE 311-165 FN ( Ranch Dog ) Plain base bullets I PC'ed them with Eastwood's Light Ford Blue. and then sized them in my .311 push through sizer which spits them out at .3115"
I normally shoot this same bullet but gas checked base (without checks PC'ed and sized .310") which is my favorite combo.......but I need to cast more so I took a chance on the fatter plain base & I was happy I did.
Yesterday morning was our first really cold morning with frost! At the range it was 29 degrees but crystal clear and no wind.
I shot 50 rounds as 5- ten shot groups.
The 7.1 grains of Unique was selected because previous targets I saved from the past showed the best groups with that plain base PC'ed bullet:
I think it is a good load ......it is around 1200 fps ( that is a bit faster then I usually shoot at and Unique is pretty much the slowest powder I use for "Low Node" shooting).
The 5 targets are posted below: Targets # 2 and # 5 made it a good day for me! The 50 rounds represents 45 minutes of shooting which is about average for me and this rifle.
Jim
F
freebullet
Guest
Thwack!!! I very much appreciate the sound to, JW. Well done.
Wasalmonslayer
Well-Known Member
Dang fine shooting right there!
Love it when the range trip just works out
Love it when the range trip just works out
M3845708Bama
Active Member
JWFilips
Well-Known Member
OK I did not shoot this Low Node Target ( Going against the Thread title)
But Somewhere I thought I remembered someone asking about cast bullet loads for the 257 Roberts.
My Shooting buddy, Ed shot this today pretty close to subsonic if not subsonic.
It was from his 77 Ruger .257 Rob .22" barrel using the NOE 65 grain FN plain base bullets I cast for him. He doesn't weigh these or size them!
( I know they drop fat ) Lubed in alox. 5.6 grains WST Rem 9 1/2 primers..
12x old weaver scope ( Shot at 50 yards ) Widest point on the group is 1"
Today at the range was 40 deg with overcast..... and no wind!
But Somewhere I thought I remembered someone asking about cast bullet loads for the 257 Roberts.
My Shooting buddy, Ed shot this today pretty close to subsonic if not subsonic.
It was from his 77 Ruger .257 Rob .22" barrel using the NOE 65 grain FN plain base bullets I cast for him. He doesn't weigh these or size them!
( I know they drop fat ) Lubed in alox. 5.6 grains WST Rem 9 1/2 primers..
12x old weaver scope ( Shot at 50 yards ) Widest point on the group is 1"
Today at the range was 40 deg with overcast..... and no wind!
JWFilips
Well-Known Member
Ok So I take my heavy barrel .243 Win to the range today ( 1980's Ruger 77V Tang safety with the worn throat) At my house the weather was nice at 34 degrees and no wind....Started shooting at 8 am on the mountain where are range is located.
My usual; Bench rest at 50 yards using the long in the nose NOE 246 Flat point These wold be moving slow at about 975 fps
They only had my magic load of 5.3 grains American Select.....the rand temp was 29 deg and the winds were starting to gust!
Amazingly I got the first set of 10 shots off between gusts...well sort of..... waiting on the wind for each shot!
Then the winds decided to ruin the day! Even with waiting them out the next 4 - 10 shot groups were nothing to brag about as far as I'm concerned. The winds became near constant at about 30 mph Target boards were moving all over the place not to mention wind in the face! Yuck! I'm calling the first target luck ...maybe because it is the second time I shot rifle in 8 months ( may have lost my bad habits!) at least that is what my wife said!
Anyway a great 30 WCF group last week and I think this is one of my better Low Node .243 Win groups also...this week
BTW the COL on these long bullets that I seat into the worn throat require loading single shot into the chamber The are far too long for using the magazine...but this allows me to set the small amount of powder forward against the bullet for every shot
I had to put the text into the photo because I can't write that small and make it readable.
Just added April 10th 2021: ( Forgot to mention that these PC coated bullets had a light overcoat of BLL ....which could be significant)
My usual; Bench rest at 50 yards using the long in the nose NOE 246 Flat point These wold be moving slow at about 975 fps
They only had my magic load of 5.3 grains American Select.....the rand temp was 29 deg and the winds were starting to gust!
Amazingly I got the first set of 10 shots off between gusts...well sort of..... waiting on the wind for each shot!
Then the winds decided to ruin the day! Even with waiting them out the next 4 - 10 shot groups were nothing to brag about as far as I'm concerned. The winds became near constant at about 30 mph Target boards were moving all over the place not to mention wind in the face! Yuck! I'm calling the first target luck ...maybe because it is the second time I shot rifle in 8 months ( may have lost my bad habits!) at least that is what my wife said!
Anyway a great 30 WCF group last week and I think this is one of my better Low Node .243 Win groups also...this week
BTW the COL on these long bullets that I seat into the worn throat require loading single shot into the chamber The are far too long for using the magazine...but this allows me to set the small amount of powder forward against the bullet for every shot
I had to put the text into the photo because I can't write that small and make it readable.
Just added April 10th 2021: ( Forgot to mention that these PC coated bullets had a light overcoat of BLL ....which could be significant)
Last edited:
JWFilips
Well-Known Member
One Thing I have to Mention when developing Low Velocity load : .1 grain + or - is an issue!
When I weigh my charges ( digital scale ) the really need to be exact! on the Above load of 5.3 grains of American Select If I can not get a definite 5.3 grains it is dumped back in the hopper! If I see the load number changing either way I restart my scale !
When you are shooting light powder charges you need to be precise as possible! .1 of a grain really moves the bullet impact!
That is why I find accuracy with low powder charges a great & exciting challenge!
When I weigh my charges ( digital scale ) the really need to be exact! on the Above load of 5.3 grains of American Select If I can not get a definite 5.3 grains it is dumped back in the hopper! If I see the load number changing either way I restart my scale !
When you are shooting light powder charges you need to be precise as possible! .1 of a grain really moves the bullet impact!
That is why I find accuracy with low powder charges a great & exciting challenge!